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MTTs - Sitting Out and Blinding Down - When do hands get showndown?

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  • MTTs - Sitting Out and Blinding Down - When do hands get showndown?

    I was sitting out at the end of an MTT and blinded down. I was forced all-in in the BB at 100/200 and was dealt AT PokerStars Hand #113616380925: Tournament #872598897, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2014/03/21 17:51:53 WET [2014/03/21 13:51:53 ET] Table '872598897 811' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: petno007 (690 in chips) Seat 2: EdinFreeMan (175 in chips) is sitting out Seat 3: AleksandrY60 (5100 in chips) is sitting out Seat 4: semdt (305 in chips) is sitting out Seat 5: s!xoja (7165 in chips) Seat 6: PochitoPoker (110 in chips) is sitting out Seat 7: iVusal (295 in chips) is sitting out Seat 8: politelen01 (11830 in chips) Seat 9: ALPACHINO21 (14715 in chips) petno007: posts the ante 20 EdinFreeMan: posts the ante 20 AleksandrY60: posts the ante 20 semdt: posts the ante 20 s!xoja: posts the ante 20 PochitoPoker: posts the ante 20 iVusal: posts the ante 20 politelen01: posts the ante 20 ALPACHINO21: posts the ante 20 petno007: posts small blind 100 EdinFreeMan: posts big blind 155 and is all-in *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to EdinFreeMan [Ad Th] AleksandrY60: folds semdt: folds s!xoja: folds PochitoPoker: folds iVusal: folds politelen01: folds ALPACHINO21: raises 245 to 400 petno007: folds EdinFreeMan: folds Uncalled bet (245) returned to ALPACHINO21 So here my hand was folded preflop even though I was forced all-in. Sometimes I notice sitting out players hands are turned up and they run the board to showdown - such that the sitting out player will possibly win the hand at showdown and gain the pot even though they are still sitting out and continuing to blind down. Is there some technical rule about which circumstances the cards are folded and which they run against an opponent with a chance to win the pot? Ed
    Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Fri Mar 21, 2014, 11:17 PM.
    4 Time Bracelet Winner



  • #2
    I've never seen anyone sitting out who's all in who gets to play their hand. Their hand always gets mucked before any cards get dealt in my experience.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by spand42 View Post
      I've never seen anyone sitting out who's all in who gets to play their hand. Their hand always gets mucked before any cards get dealt in my experience.
      I have seen it many times - it always gets a laugh at the table when the sitting-out players random hand wins what is usually just a part of the pot. I don't have an example to hand but if I find one I will post it.

      Ed
      4 Time Bracelet Winner


      Comment


      • #4
        I'm pretty sure it always behaves the way it did for you on PS - at least now (it might not have been the case in the past). Other sites play out the hand even for sitting out players.

        (Of course, about 40% of what I say turns out to be incorrect.)

        Paul

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by thispaul View Post
          I'm pretty sure it always behaves the way it did for you on PS - at least now (it might not have been the case in the past). Other sites play out the hand even for sitting out players.

          (Of course, about 40% of what I say turns out to be incorrect.)

          Paul
          Well if 40% of what you say is wrong - and I factor for about 50% of the things I think I see happening are actually just happening in my own head - who knows what the reality is...

          I'm 50% certain this does happen - or did - cannot remember the last time I saw it though. Will just have to wait for the next time I see it - if I ever do.

          If it never happens then I will earn more than if it happens on certain rare occasions.



          Ed
          4 Time Bracelet Winner


          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with Ed, sometimes the sitting player's hand is played out. I can't remember the specific circumstances, but I have seen this. I'll keep my eyes open for an example.

            Bracelet Winner


            Comment


            • #7
              Hi guys,

              I'm unsure if i understood correctly, but my guess is that some players call instead of raising therefore the hand goes to showdown.. while if u were to raise, player automatically folds.. pretty sure it is due to stack sizes.. and it only happens when player stting out is all in..

              hope this helps,

              best regards

              Comment


              • #8
                On 888 poker the hand runs, not on stars.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The hand runs on IF.... the sitter is all in and the other player has equal to more chips in already.

                  Ex: SB posts blind of 500, BB is all in for 500 or under.... the hand will run. If the opp in the hand raises or has more chips put in voluntarily, then the hand is mucked.

                  John (JWK24)
                  Super-Moderator



                  6 Time Bracelet Winner


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
                    The hand runs on IF.... the sitter is all in and the other player has equal to more chips in already. Ex: SB posts blind of 500, BB is all in for 500 or under.... the hand will run. If the opp in the hand raises or has more chips put in voluntarily, then the hand is mucked. John (JWK24)
                    Cheers John Thought there was some situation I had seen it happen - and that makes perfect sense. umbup: Ed
                    4 Time Bracelet Winner


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So, yes, I'm definitely wrong...

                      PokerStars Hand #114265882690: Tournament #885887030, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (125/250) - 2014/04/03 23:03:47 WET [2014/04/03 18:03:47 ET]
                      Table '885887030 404' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
                      Seat 1: Player 1 (50960 in chips)
                      Seat 2: Player 2 (880 in chips) is sitting out
                      Seat 3: Player 3 (105 in chips) is sitting out
                      Seat 4: Player 4 (3545 in chips) is sitting out
                      Seat 5: Player 5 (9415 in chips)
                      Seat 6: Player 6 (8375 in chips)
                      Seat 8: thispaul (260 in chips) is sitting out
                      Seat 9: Player 9 (790 in chips)
                      Player 1: posts the ante 25
                      Player 2: posts the ante 25
                      Player 3: posts the ante 25
                      Player 4: posts the ante 25
                      Player 5: posts the ante 25
                      Player 6: posts the ante 25
                      thispaul: posts the ante 25
                      Player 9: posts the ante 25
                      Player 6: posts small blind 125
                      thispaul: posts big blind 235 and is all-in
                      *** HOLE CARDS ***
                      Dealt to thispaul [4h Th]
                      Player 9: folds
                      Player 1: folds
                      Player 2: folds
                      Player 3: folds
                      Player 4: folds
                      Player 5: folds
                      Player 6: calls 110
                      *** FLOP *** [Qc Ac Tc]
                      *** TURN *** [Qc Ac Tc] [8c]
                      *** RIVER *** [Qc Ac Tc 8c] [Qh]
                      *** SHOW DOWN ***
                      Player 6: shows [Jc 7d] (a flush, Ace high)
                      thispaul: mucks hand
                      Player 6 collected 670 from pot
                      thispaul finished the tournament in 1568th place
                      *** SUMMARY ***
                      Total pot 670 | Rake 0
                      Board [Qc Ac Tc 8c Qh]
                      Seat 1: Player 1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
                      Seat 2: Player 2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
                      Seat 3: Player 3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
                      Seat 4: Player 4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
                      Seat 5: Player 5 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
                      Seat 6: Player 6 (small blind) showed [Jc 7d] and won (670) with a flush, Ace high
                      Seat 8: thispaul (big blind) mucked [4h Th]
                      Seat 9: Player 9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

                      (Sorry, it's too late in the evening for me to be bothered with trying to work out how the replayer works...)

                      In this case, the hand played out because only the small blind was left to play before the all-in BB (me) and could only call to my all-in amount.

                      Paul
                      Last edited by thispaul; Sat Apr 05, 2014, 11:13 AM. Reason: Removed player names - even though I think there was nothing useful to learn about them from the hand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for posting this Paul - thispaul

                        I haven't seen an actual example to post myself since I asked the question.

                        You have 260 before the blinds/antes post.

                        You pay 25 ante then cannot quite post the full BB of 250 with only 235 left.

                        Table folds to the small blind, who has a big stack, but only has to call 110 to make the 260 you have put in, so they are paying 25 + 125 + 110 = 260 less than the BB+ante.

                        So the hand runs.

                        Nasty one.

                        Trying to look at ways to avoid this - but its not easy.

                        Cheers

                        ed
                        Last edited by EdinFreeMan; Fri Apr 04, 2014, 02:36 AM.
                        4 Time Bracelet Winner


                        Comment


                        • #13


                          Player 2 is sitting out, think this example is the same as the one above.
                          Last edited by joy7108; Sat Apr 05, 2014, 04:58 AM. Reason: typo
                          Bracelet Winner


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by joy7108 View Post
                            Player 2 is sitting out, think this example is the same as the one above.
                            Hi Joy,

                            The hand stops in the replayer (for me) after the BB puts his chips in, so it's a bit difficult to see what happened next, but I would expect that if the all-in BB was sitting out, he'd auto-fold and the SB would collect all the chips. Is that what happened?

                            (I'm not sure if you're saying "here's an example like the one above and it plays out" or "here's an example like the one above and it doesn't play out".)

                            Either way, I think it's not the same as the example I gave. It might be comparable to JWK24s example, but I'm not sure it he's correct - I think his example only plays out if both players have EXACTLY 500 chips in.

                            Kind regards,
                            Paul

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just tried putting this to the test in a game. Was sitting out on the BB, couldn't cover it (automatically went all-in) and the first occurrence of anyone betting/calling more than I was in the pot for mucked me. I would assume that the SB's actions would do the same if he had a chance to bet/call. In the case of the SB initial contribution being larger than the BB's All-in contribution there isn't that action that mucks the BB's hand so it's possible the hand might run, but that's a very specific and probably uncommon thing.

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