PokerStars homepage
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

PokerStars Player Representatives Report RAKE & VIP changes*OFFICIAL DISCUSSION*

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • PokerStars Player Representatives Report RAKE & VIP changes*OFFICIAL DISCUSSION*

    PokerStars Player Representatives Report

    cliffs

    ● All changes will be implemented on February 1, 2012
    ● VPPs will continue to be awarded according to the weighted contributed system.
    ● Overall rake has been reduced by about 2% from the 2011 rates, which is giving more back to the players than the 1.5% loss in VIP rewards
    ● Supernova/SNE kept for 2013 as long as monthly VPP maintenance requirements are met in 2012 (this year only)
    ● Supernova/SNE lasts for 12 months instead of 9 when monthly requirements are met and the right to miss one extra month taken into account.
    ● Supernova monthly VPP maintenance requirement lowered to 6500 VPPs/month
    ● 3c-6c and 8c-16c NLHE levels will be added

    New Rake Structure (USD)











    Introduction


    Stars announced changes on December 28th to be implemented on January 1st, 2012:

    ● VPPs allocated by the weighted contribution method instead of the dealt method
    ● Major rake changes involved decreased rake percentage and caps at many levels.
    ● Rake is taken at a true percentage instead of incremental.
    ● PokerStars canceled the rake changes pending the results of this meeting


    Key Issues Raised

    General
    ● Rake at the microstakes was high to the detriment of the whole poker economy because new players were “discouraged” by losing money too quickly
    ● Rake at some games made them almost impossible to beat: CAP games, Limit Hold’em and Micro/Low Stakes Big Bet
    ● Delays in communication of changes

    Weighted Contributed Change
    ● Distribution of VPPs and FPPs shifted from SN+ to Platinum Star and below
    ● SN+ tiers are harder to achieve for many players
    ● Claims that PokerStars was increasing profits

    Rake Changes
    ● Rake increase at some stakes
    ● Lead to claims that PokerStars was increasing profits

    Solutions from Player Meeting

    Rake Revenue
    The change from dealt to weighted contributed rake gave PokerStars an increase in cash game revenue of about 1.5%.

    PokerStars originally reduced rake to the extent that only 1% of the 1.5% revenue was returned to the players. They have now agreed to reduce rake by about 2%, resulting in a net revenue loss for PokerStars and net revenue gain to the players.

    Rake changes occur in terms of either cap changes or rake % changes.

    Rake Reductions
    About 40% of the rake changes are associated with microstakes games. Every game at the microstakes has seen a rake reduction.

    Rake Increases
    ● Rake at big bet games 25/50 and higher has increased
    ● This rake increase goes directly back into lower stakes games
    ● Rake at the high stakes games is very low in terms of bb/100 compared to lower stakes games
    ● PokerStars still offers competitive rake structures at these levels
    ● Associated costs with these games are much higher due to detecting collusion, fraudulent deposits, monitoring games, etc

    Supernova/SNE Made Easier
    ● Returning SN/SNE players now can miss 2 of their monthly VPP retainers before they lose status
    ● Returning SN/SNE players will keep their status for 12 months instead of 9 months if they meet the retainers
    ● SNE requirement remains at 50,000 VPP/month and SN is reduced to 6,500 VPP/month

    Supernova/SNE 2012-2013 Only Change
    ● Returning SN/SNE players now will retain their status going into 2013 if they accumulate a yearly VPP total equal to 10 retainer months
    ● For example, an SN earning 6,500 per month in each of 10 months would need 65,000 VPPs and an SNE earning 50,000 per month in each of 10 months would need 500,000 VPPs to keep their status throughout 2013
    ● To be clear, you must earn the 6500 or 50,000 in 10 different months
    ● This only applies this year and retaining status only includes the higher FPP multiplier (does not include milestone bonuses or tournament entries)

    New Micro Levels
    PokerStars has agreed to introduce two new stake levels for NL Hold’em of 3c/6c and 8c/16c. This will make it easier for players to move up/take shots at a higher level and should help to “unblock” the micro stakes. If these prove successful, new stake levels will be considered.

    Fact Checking
    PokerStars has agreed to revisit the rake figures later in the year, and if the actual rake differs significantly from the projected rake, then they may make further rake reductions.

    Additional Issues
    Communication


    PokerStars has recognised that it made mistakes in communicating the latest changes.

    ● It has committed to providing as much notice as possible before making changes in the future
    ● It will invite player representatives to discuss issues with PokerStars, twice a year in April and November
    ● PokerStars reserves the right to make changes without prior consultation if business conditions necessitate. They intend this to be a rare thing.

    VPP Multiplier
    ● Many players now have different VPP rates per hand than before. Data shows average losses at 14.3% for SNE and a 13.0% loss for SN.
    ● The total amount of VPPs remains the same, so VPPs reduced from higher tiers are entirely redistributed to lower tiers.
    ● PokerStars will not reduce the 6x VPP multiplier at full ring games. They recognise the inequality, but full ring games are a small portion of real money games. This should be considered a bonus for full ring and not a punishment for other games.
    ● 8c/16c will have a 6x VPP multiplier at 6max. 3c/6c will be determined.

    PokerTableRatings (PTR)
    PokerStars opposes the exposure of player information by PTR and will take whatever action it can to prevent this information from being publicly disclosed

    Max Table Caps
    We have been briefed about plans to cap the maximum number of tables. If you keep timing out and frustrating other players by acting more slowly than the average player, Stars will reduce the number of tables you are allowed to play. If you are playing 24 tables and acting much more quickly than the average player, you may get a max table increase.

    General

    We were given access to confidential information and data which we analyzed. We tried a number of sensitivity tests that make us confident that the changes listed above do mean PokerStars is putting extra money into the poker economy rather than removing money.

    One final point: I think that this is a first in the poker industry, that major changes to product and pricing have been announced by the players and not by the company.
    Last edited by CannonLee; Sat Jan 28, 2012, 08:03 PM.

    Quintuple Bracelet Winner


  • #2
    I love the fact that we have the two new micro levels. That will be a good boost for myself and i hope others trying to grind up in cash games.

    Lots in information in that post CannonLee (which is great) so may take me a while to take it all in.

    I noticed referances in the post to player representatives, how are these picked / who are they (ie do we as a PSO community have a representitive there pointing to posts in the forum?)

    Grade b
    I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

    13 Time Bracelet Winner


    Comment


    • #3
      PokerTableRatings (PTR)
      PokerStars opposes the exposure of player information by PTR and will take whatever action it can to prevent this information from being publicly disclosed

      What does this mean?

      Comment


      • #4
        looks like they swiped this from 2p2 where stars have reps posting all the time

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Grade b View Post
          I love the fact that we have the two new micro levels. That will be a good boost for myself and i hope others trying to grind up in cash games. Lots in information in that post CannonLee (which is great) so may take me a while to take it all in. I noticed referances in the post to player representatives, how are these picked / who are they (ie do we as a PSO community have a representitive there pointing to posts in the forum?) Grade b
          I also am glad to hear that there is new levels added 3c-6c and 8c-16c at the NLHE microstakes!umbup: There was a public poll on 2+2 poker forums about which player representatives will be selected to fly to the Isle of Man (PokerStars Head Quarters) for a meeting and negotiate "positive" changes to the current cash game rake structure and VIP Club. Here is a list of the representatives in the 2+2 poker forums public poll: Sect7G xPeru Klairic krmont22 chisness --UCLA Deity-- As for the PSO community there was no representatives that attended the meeting.
          Originally posted by m.bisland View Post
          PokerTableRatings (PTR) PokerStars opposes the exposure of player information by PTR and will take whatever action it can to prevent this information from being publicly disclosed What does this mean?
          The following types of tools and services are prohibited: 1. Any program that shares hole card data with other players or programs is colluding, and is prohibited. 2. Any program that works off of a central database of player profiles or hands played is prohibited. 3. Any program that plays without human intervention (a 'bot') or reduces the requirement of a human playing. For instance, an 'auto-folder' is prohibited. 4. The practice of datamining (observing games without playing in order to build up a database of hand histories for future reference) is prohibited. 5. Any software that offers direct game play advice on the appropriate action to take. Poker Table Ratings is #55 on the list of prohibited tools and software. source: Third Party Tools and Services FAQ
          Last edited by CannonLee; Sat Jan 28, 2012, 09:54 PM.

          Quintuple Bracelet Winner

          Comment


          • #6
            PokerTableRatings (PTR)
            PokerStars opposes the exposure of player information by PTR and will take whatever action it can to prevent this information from being publicly disclosed
            Is there anything that Pokerstars can actually do about this? Also, how exactly does PTR track all hand histories of hands played on Pokerstars?

            Excited to hear about the new microstakes limits. If US players ever come back it will make moving up in the stakes so much better.

            Comment


            • #7
              The PTR issue cant be controlled,not sure why it would become a focus point when they admitted as much in the past and its a bit of dead issue,just like the use of huds.

              Comment


              • #8
                I must say I like these new levels as it should break down the grind.
                Its a nice reward to move up with good bankroll management then getting bored and taking a shot.
                Obviously I do the latter and need to play less and focus more,reason Im on a break.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RockerguyAA View Post
                  Is there anything that Pokerstars can actually do about this? Also, how exactly does PTR track all hand histories of hands played on Pokerstars?

                  Excited to hear about the new microstakes limits. If US players ever come back it will make moving up in the stakes so much better.
                  PokerStars is well aware of the challenges posed by PokerTableRatings.
                  It's an ongoing challenge, but despite this, we are going to keep fighting to combat PTR.

                  imo This could possibly be a solution for combating PTR, implement a 1 time screen name change for all the player base of PokerStars temporarily for 3months+ to eliminate all data mining from PTR as PokerStars takes the necessary actions to expunge PTR and all of it's components/database/methods of obtaining player stats etc.. might work but PTR is so complex...

                  PokerTableRatings uses a massive database of compiled player results to assess the quality of play at online poker tables.... and how they get the hand histories/stats is unknown

                  Originally posted by Deleted user View Post
                  The PTR issue cant be controlled,not sure why it would become a focus point when they admitted as much in the past and its a bit of dead issue,just like the use of huds.
                  I would like to hear your thoughts on the solution that i mentioned in RockersGuys quote.

                  Originally posted by Deleted user View Post
                  I must say I like these new levels as it should break down the grind.
                  Its a nice reward to move up with good bankroll management then getting bored and taking a shot.
                  Obviously I do the latter and need to play less and focus more,reason Im on a break.
                  I agree 100% But i would like to see those new levels at PLO8 as I'm an aficionado there
                  Last edited by CannonLee; Mon Jan 30, 2012, 06:16 AM.

                  Quintuple Bracelet Winner

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    they get them from stars/ FT banned them and stars talks the big game but they refuse to shut them out like tilt did

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It was nice to see Stars consult the players like this.
                      Head Live Trainer
                      Check out my Videos

                      4 Time Bracelet Winner



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        there is a mention that no pso player representeives will be sent ,
                        Can i ask why there is no one representing pso and should there be more information made available about pso and its own players

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          mainly because all the people are supernova elites, not too many of them around here lol

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            @Cannon lee

                            I think the name change idea is more counter productive.
                            It will create suspicion with casual players thinking the regs still have a way to figure it out.
                            Other issue is people lose track of their friends and more players come here for social at the micros then people give credit.

                            PTR is owned by Zynga I believe and I dont see them going anywhere till say they start a poker site which I have heard rumors about for some time. Its will be interesting if Zynga does get into poker if they add their customers. If they dont it becomes a interesting dynamic...Whoa Im off course now.

                            I really dont know the answer,to be honest I would like to play at a site with out huds at any form of database collection for all to see. Would make poker more interesting,at least I would hope so.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              the ptr answer is simple:

                              stars releases all data so any 3rd party software or sites become obsolete !!

                              if you can't control them ...............
                              17 Time Bracelet Winner

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X

                              X Cookies Information

                              We have placed cookies on your computer to improve your experience on our website. You can change your cookie settings at any time. Otherwise, we'll assume you're OK to continue.