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Card Dead?

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  • Card Dead?

    After playing in a LHE tournament this morning, early, I have a question I would like to pose to any who have had the same experience. With the WPO coming up and some of us will be playing in LHE events, with similiar structures, T500 starting chips, Blinds start at 10/15 what do you do if you find yourself in a seat that is totally "card dead"? That is, you are seeing only hands like 2/4o, 6/3o, 9/3o, J/4o, A6o....etc etc. No 2 faces, no middle connectors, suited or not, no Ace/big. Nothing. Not a hand that you would consider a "playable" hand in Limit Hold-em. You know that game is pretty much a "showdown" and you are likely to be called, and therefore steals in the lower levels are nearly impossible, and you'll never survive to the higher blind levels without winning some chips.
    I am a firm believer that you almost always want to "pump or dump" in this game, to give your hand the best chance of holding up, but you have to have some kind of plausable hand to start with.
    Soooooooooooo, let's hear some thoughts and views on this situation.


  • #2
    You mean there are better hands than those.............??

    Damn! I have to play those all the :lol:

    And.............what about the time when I had pocket rockets three times in the same game and got biffed up each time..............


    • #3
      A card dead spell in limit IS the kiss of death. In fact, an early rush (unless you are at a table of chasers that don't hit) followed by going card dead is also a disaster.

      Since you can rarely double thru in limit in the early stages, you have to win more hands to win a limit tourney than to win a NLHE event. And with limit, especially early on, being a showdown game you have to mostly have a winning hand to drag the pot.

      Going card dead or having a run of limit acorn finders beat your good hands is a recipie for an early exit. However, an early exit in Limit still means you played for about an hour.


      • #4
        goddess, it is unfortunate when that happens to us.

        As I see it, we have only two choices. Sit and watch our stack be eaten by the blinds and antes, or try to steal some pots to keep it from happening. I really don't like to bluff, but I guess everyone knows that bluffing is an important part of big bet poker. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.


        • #5

          Please spell out limit (maybe like this instead LIMIT) in future posts.

          I guess those of us who wish to discuss occaisionally something besides NLHE should preface our postings with disclaimers such as:

          WARNING! NLHE is NOT discussed in this post. Reading this material has proven to be dangerous to one dimensional poker players. Please leave now to prevent serious poker disorientation.

          :lol: :lol: This post is meant to be humourous. :lol: :lol:


          • #6
            Goddess: If you are card dead, you are card dead -- there is nothing you can do -- but BE PATIENT!!!

            The blinds are small in the beginning of the tourney, but you start with very fewer chips. Many players will play any two cards, weak aces, any suited cards, and baby pairs, and you will see 5 and 6 players taking the flop, but don't make this mistake! Once in, the pot odds will be there for you to chase miracles and if you do not get lucky you will be crippled early because these pots get expensive! Be patient and wait for hands that are big, that the flop hits further and that you are a favorite. Just my opinion, but the startegy has worked great for me in live tourneys (not so great against the gutshot artists and runner-runner experts here who can cripple you early lol).

            I have enjoyed playing limit with you here, and you have performed well. But, I must caution you that IMO the play of the limit holdem tourneys here is the LEAST correlated to bigger buy-in live tourneys ($300 or more) of the big three tourney games -- No Limit Holdem, Omaha 8, and Limit Holdem. I do not play enough big buy-in tourneys in pot limit holdem and omaha to comment.

            IMO O/8 and No limit correlate pretty closely, but Limit holdem can reward players who play weak hands in the short run, and against the smaller fields here at PSO, a player can get on a rush, make a final table and do well.

            I have joked with you about not playing anymore limit tourneys here because I think it is counterproductive to my live tourney games. Believe it or not (you have witnessed my recent early exits from the game), I have finished in the money at live limit tourneys at Orleans, Queens Classic and Foxwoods and made two final tables. I play the way you describe -- tight but bump it up when you have the goods. Playing the same way here often leads to early exits because you will have more preflop callers and players will call down with nothing. You will find this some in the early stages at WPO, but not as bad as here, but players will tighten up after first two rounds when limits get more expensive (something that doesn't happen here as much).

            Stay tight and don't worry even if you lose 1/3 to 1/2 of your chips in the early rounds, because you will hit a hand, and when the limits go up, a couple of wins will carry you right back to even. If not, then so be it. Obviously you have to play aggressively throughout from late position and steal pots that are for sale. But, you are right -- in the early rounds the game will be showdown, you better have the goods.

            Play the way you know how Goddess and make the money! I will be rooting for you!



            • #7
              Shoeless Joe,
              You're soooo cute, I could just squeeze you ( meaning, pinch your head off)

              Thanks guys
              Just as I suspected, seems there is no defense to no offense. In other words, nothing that one can do when you find yourself in a "card dead" seat. I guess I was hoping for someone to give me a secret formula to save the day, but it's not to be. I realize, about the only thing you can do is save your chips that the blinds don't eat up for that first playable hand, and hope with all your might that it holds up.
              TKO14, perhaps you're right about the bigger buy in LIMIT tournaments, as I haven't been able to play in those yet. The WPO $500 event will be my first at the buy in range, but I have played in a lot of much smaller ones as well as the $200 buy in Ladies event at the WPO and my experience in those, is much like here at PSO. In the Ladies event last year, I found myself with AA twice in the first level and picked up only the blinds after making the initial raise...not much help. Then of course....card dead. The only memorable hand I had, was my last. With about half my starting chips left, I finally picked up AKs in early position. Made the raise, and all folded to the BB. She called without hesitation (she was not big stacked either). Oh glorius day, I hit an Ace on the flop and started jammin them chips in, down to my very last one. I looked like I'd been slapped in the face with a wet towel when she so very proudly turned over her 34o at the river to show a rivered wheel. Oh yes, it was GREAT that she called a preflop raise with 34o, and yes, it was GREAT that she chased with absolutely NOTHING to the river against my Aces. We want those kind of plays. Well, you know what? It wasn't great, because it did me absolutely no good as it eliminated me from the tournament, so I gain NO benefit from her horrible play.
              Now,...all that aside. I have every intention of WINNING the Ladies event this year! I WILL be mind is made up.




              • #8

                Last year they gave us $800 in the $500 buyin limit and NL. Is it just
                T500 this year due to it being one day tourneys now?

                I caught a huge rush of cards in the first four rounds last year, was way over T3000, even busted a BB's Aces from the SB with my KK when a K flopped, huge pot. I was showing down sets, Broadway straights, etc for the first four hours. Then my cards just dried up. Now, if the table hadn't broken, I really think I could have won that tournament because everyone at the table was scared to death of me, thinking I was just on a non-stop rush. But, alas, the table broke and I went to a much tougher table that was very agressive.

                I think I went two levels without even a playable hand or a chance to steal from late position. If I had it to do over, I would have tried a couple of times to reraise late position raisers, try to catch them trying to steal (blinds were T250-T500 by t his time), or calling raises in the small blind and betting out on the flop with my rags and a raggedy(sp?) board.

                In recollection, I know now that when I went to that table and went three rotations without seeing a flop, anyone worth his weight in salt is gonna fold anything short of QQ to my reraises thinking I was tight as a drum.

                The way I see it, if you play from beginning to end, say 12 hours, you are gonna have a period of one to two hours of completely dead cards, and how you handle it will no doubt determine your fate in the tourney. Last year, I handled it very poorly and let myself get down to 3BB before making a stand with JJ (which looked like Aces after the run I had been on).

                Good luck to you, I hope you finish second (wink)...


                ps. On a similar note, what do you do in shorter tourneys when you are card dead and the blinds are rising like crazy?