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    hi fellow students and freinds...
    as some of you might know, it is rare that i post in the forum, but i often read and keep upto date with your ideas , tales and comments.

    however, i have noticed some very suspect things (suspect to me in my opinion) and i would like your views on this (including mark/tina etc) goes

    has the software or format of the games changed in anyway...?

    i stopped playing at paradise poker because of the miracle cards players kept hitting after they had raised and raised or called and called all-in. Then i was informed that their software was shall we say, liberal...designed to create more pots etc.
    Well i have noticed a similar pattern here over the last 3 weeks...and i have been watching games that im not involved in, so as to form an unbiased opinion.
    It has got to the stage where you can nearly predict the card(s) that are going to come and rescue the all-in seems the worse the call or cards the more likely the massive outdraws. i was trying to put reason to it and the only thing i could guess was that, maybe the software has been somewhat relaxed to give the bad players more of a chance in games (so as not to get disheartened ? ) and maybe to persuade more players to join ? not sure.

    one thing i am sure of though is this, we have all had,seen and heard of bad beats..and there is a lot of games played here so logically a lot of bad beats..but (imo) it is bordering on ridiculas now...there is no way in real games (something i play a lot of and with some of the best) that these bad calls/raises etc are rewarded so frequently.
    it reminds me of a story once, a man gets caught up in a rain storm, and when he gets home he is dry, how come said his wife, oh i found an umbrella he says..the next morning he goes out and the downpour is still continuing, dont forget the umbrella his wife says, ..
    oh, i dont need it he says, im sure ill find another....there is a lot of umbrellas being found on this site lately, im thinking of going out myself to find one.....your views please..steve

  • #2
    The conspiracy theories started popping up with more frequency after the software update where the turn and river cards were turned over slowly in an all-in situation. Nothing has changed with the way the cards are dealt, you just see how those runner runner miracles get there a lot more easily.

    As far as it happening a lot more here than in your "live play" experience...

    The fact that this is a tournament structure with a great number of the tourneys being NL and PL you see a LOT more all in hands here than you will see in a ring game.


    • #3
      I seemed to think that I saw A-A and K-K alot more than I ever do in a real Casino. Sometimes Ill get A-A 3-4 times in one day on here.

      Maybe it's because I play alot more hands on here.
      Just my opinion.


      • #4
        roach, im not talking about ring games....its nothing to do with seeing the cards in all-in situations either.....ill give you an excample.
        i have just played a sat after posting this and guess what...
        i raise with K-J suited..i get called with 5-7 off suit...flop gives him a 7 , i bet little he calls to the end and takes it..not much damage to me
        next hand i get AK ..same player has flat called , i raise all in to take the pot right there...he calls with A-10 (not bad hand but not a call all-in raise of over 2K early in sat after only flat calling first, its not as if you slow play A-10 hopeing for a raise) anyway we hit the A on flop and no help for him on turn..then 10 on out early in sat. 8th
        same thing has happened 4 times tonight....i hyad over 76% for 16 sats untill tonight..JJ cracked by KQ.....9-10 on flop,,,J on river...
        QQ cracked after i raised a low flop and got called (both all in) 1 club on flop..followed by 2 more to give back door flush...and on and on..
        i play a lot of competitions and do very doesnt happen that easy in them..


        • #5
          Nope, nothing has changed. We just get to see people's cards once they are all-in. So we are more aware of the miracle card(s). It happens here about as often as it happens live, but we (at least I do and I suspect most people) play here more often than we do in a B&M casino, so we see it a lot more often here.

          Peace, Starrs LSOGC

          PS. I could go on and on about people hitting miracles in the first 6 months here at PSO and I could talk for hours about people with one, two and three outs hitting in live play including several set over sets turning into quads for the 1 outer. But it would be pretty boring.


          • #6
            Conspiracy Theories

            Steve, I have a great deal of respect for your poker ability and game. That said, I don't think there is anything to the "manipulated deal/conspiracy" theories. For some good (read: hilarious) reading on this subject, try RGP or 2+2 Forums. About thrice a week someone will post on those Forums that On-Line Poker Site 'X' software must be rigged because of some onesy/twosy annecdotal evidence. Until someone can provide me hard data I can analyze (i.e. say 200,00 hands in a row) and compare to expected results, I won't believe it. Of course, if the cards were not completely random we would never know for sure......I think a much more serious "cheating" issue with on-line Poker is the collusion problem and how On-Line Casinos either do or don't deal with it.

            What you do see in on-line poker is a tremendous amount more of hands. I believe that someone once put it at 10-1 hands per hour then you do live. Couple that with the facts that it is soooo easy to click the all-in button and now the cards are shown on the all-ins, and i think you have why it "appears" that there are more badbeats.


            • #7
              I played three tournaments today, got knocked out three times by a three-out Q on the river in each one.

              Only one was at PSO though. No conspiracy suspected, just me running badly for a while. Gotta get it out of my system.

              I think it is like the previous caller said, more hands, more bad beats. I imagine that I see more single suited flops, but haven't done the math on it to prove it, probably just a mirage.

              Same thing with flops like AAA, 333, 777, seems like I see a lot of those, but I have seen them a couple times in casinos in much fewer hands.



              • #8
                :idea: I suspect simply the random deal and flop of the cards. However, would it not be nice to have the powers that be state empathically that, the cards are random. I would believe Mark if he came out and stated that once and for all.

                Or maybe he already has. ops:


                • #9
                  the reason for such lucky breaks is fairly obvious in my opinion. We are not playing for real money, and there are many here who do not care about rankings - therefore there are players with "nothing" to lose who will play any two cards. You don't see this in real games because there are few out there who would take such chances with real money


                  • #10
                    Yes Beeker you have a point there about Mark addressing this issue
                    I once posted something similar to this issue and Mark or no one from the school would address it. Maybe they think that there is
                    no reason to do so. But there seems to be a lot of questions
                    concerning the randomness of the generator. I do sincerely believe
                    that some how the software is action oriented, maybe not here but
                    at other sites. More big hands means more rake at other sites.
                    Mark could you please address this issue and go on record.
                    Thank You


                    • #11
                      Actually Mark and the PSO Staff have addressed this issue, but it was on the old forum and no longer available.

                      I would like to see the explanation added to the site (in the Help, Reference or Software section). The description put forward was sufficient to allay any concerns I might have had.


                      • #12
                        It's easy.

                        The "bad beats" register much more strongly than the "righteous victories".

                        That's all

                        Take care :wink:


                        • #13
                          having just made my 2nd trip to a casino i cant speak from any great experiance but we are playing 2 times as many hands as we do in live game hence we see more hands we see more beats as for big drawing hands getting beat by small drawing hands it was happening every other hand when i played in B&M although i never once saw AA v a PP apart from the 77 i folded in rebuy period on money i do see PP v PP lower pair making a set and AK v A rag with rag hitting.

                          i dont think its the software i think its more to do with the fact of the speed of hands.


                          • #14
                            hurricane something to think about, i hold qj, flop is 8810o, turn 9 i go all in called by k8o, wow what appears on the riv????? a 10 lol if u ever get a response to your post from any pso staff let us know, very doubtful though. jokerAA


                            • #15
                              JokerAA your JQ will lose to K8 with a flop of 88109 22 out of every 100 times on the river.

                              There is absolutely nothing worthy to remember for you the 78 times that you win. What sticks in your mind is every time you lose. While you are a big favorite here, 22% is a large enough percentage to make you feel like you are always getting sucked out on.