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Bad Beat Jackpots???

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  • Bad Beat Jackpots???

    I was hoping they were kidding, but I am just now being told that certain casinos have bad beat jackpots. So what you're telling me is that if I play my butt off and make a wad of cash, some cry baby can take it away from me?? Who is the jackass who came up with this utter cow pattie of an idea?

    In fairness, how does this work? Are you informed in advance that you are subject to having your winnings taken away from you? Is it posted somewhere in the casino? Who decides what is and isn't a bad beat for the sake of this jackpot? I would like more information.

    But my initial opinion is that this is evil. If you don't win, you don't win. Period. No casino should force a player who has played well and even gotten a little lucky to fork over his winnings to someone who DID NOT WIN!! This borders on socialism.

    We as a poker community should battle this concept. I mean, if you're going to give a player's winnings to someone who DID NOT WIN, what's the use of playing?

  • #2
    The way bad beat jackpots work is that a predetermined amount of money (usually a dollar) is taken out of the pot after each hand. The only way to win the jackpot is to have a huge hand beaten (usually aces full of jacks or better for holdem, but varies from casino to casino), using both cards from both the winner's and loser's hands -- I've heard of things getting ugly when someone made quads where the other card in their hand didn't play, which doesn't qualify. Some casinos play that the person who was beaten takes the whole jackpot; some play where the loser of the hand gets 75% and the winner 25%, and the way I've seen it most often is that the loser gets 50%, winner 25%, and the remaining 25% is split around the table.

    The jackpot has nothing to do with a player's winnings for the night; it's kept separately by the casino.

    And if the original post was tongue-in-cheek, I'll just slink away quietly. ops:



    • #3
      Hey Bart,

      I'm not sure if you are kidding or not, but if you're not kidding then you have misunderstood what a Bad Beat Jackpot is.

      BBJ is when the casino rakes the pots and puts that money into a pool and then if you have a certain rank of hand beaten, you win the bad beat jackpot. It's usually something like you must have quad tens or better beaten and in Hold'Em, you and your opponent must use both hole cards to make your hand.

      Nobody's taking anybody's winnings (well, not in one lump sum, anyway).

      Peace, Starrs LSOGC

      PS. They're generally a bad deal for winning players, so if you want to fight against them I'm behind you %100.


      • #4
        whoa ther little fella.... not so quick.

        I believe you misunderstand what a bad beat jackpot is.

        The casino does not take away a players winnings.

        The casino, out of its own pocket, sets aside a fund (which grows over time between qualifying bad beats) - referred to as the bad beat jackpot.

        There are specific rules regarding what consitutes a bad beat - generally it means hands where four of a kind is beaten by a strait flush - with both players using both their hole cards.

        If this occurs, then the bad beat jackpot is won. - the jackpot is not just given to the losing player - rather all players in that hand get a peice (varies from casino to casino)

        I am sure othrs will be able to shed further light on the specifics.


        • #5
          Man, I'll have to start typing faster.

          Peace, Starrs LSOGC


          • #6
            me too - I though my response would be first.


            • #7
              Howdy, friends. Me again. In the words of Emily Latella..."Never Mind!"

              If the casino itself is putting up the money, then that is a horse of a different color, and I will now pull my foot out of my mouth!!!

              A huge misunderstanding on my part, but I am glad you good people were here to set me straight. (What can you expect from a guy whose first casino experience will be the PSO Convention Tournament??)

              Just goes to show that you can learn something new every day. My apologies. Go on about your daily business, citizens!!

              But really, thanks for the blood pressure is much better now! See y'all at the tables!


              • #8
                Funny....very funny, but interesting and timely post, as we have had 3 Hold-em BBJs hit in our room in the last week!!
                Our qualifier is Aces full of tens, beaten by quads or better. Both players hole cards must play, and the JP is divided 30% to the "beat taker", 20% to the "beater", and 50% is divided up among all the other HE players in the 4/8 games ( 4/8 is the only JP game we spread). Omaha hi/lo, the qualifier is 4 Jacks beaten, and stud is 4 10s beaten for the entire JP or any quads over quads for the "mini beat" which is 10% of the total JP. There is a $1 pot rake taken for the JP.




                • #9
                  Goddess, you are a font of information!! Looking forward to meeting you while I'm in Tunica for the PSO Convention!

                  And now that I know it's the casino's money, BBJ's don't sound quite so bad!!! :wink:

                  In fact, as many times as I've suffered bad beats here at the school, I'm almost a shoe-in for one of those jackpots!!!

                  Many thanks for the info!!!
                  -Bart M.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bart M.
                    And now that I know it's the casino's money, BBJ's don't sound quite so bad!!! :wink:
                    Well, it really isn't the casino's money...just an additional rake out of every pot.

                    I don't know too many casinos that give away such sums out of the goodness of their heart on a regular basis.



                    • #11

                      Bart M,

                      Don't get to excited. As good as the BBJ sounds and is when you get part of it; it actually encourages bad calls from players chasing the BBJ.

                      These are high variance games. Small pairs and suited connectors are played all over the place. Flushes and str8's will crash many of your 'top 2' and 'sets.' You'll have to play extremely good post flop to save on the variance. The JP pay-off gives people infinite odds to see the flop with any potential jackpot type of hand. Once the flop comes down there is normally enough dead money in the pot to justify chasing str8s and flushes. Almost always have 6 - 10 players seeing every flop. Good games for players who can catch a few good pots early and hold on or get up a winner. :wink:

                      Pots you make will be large, but this will be a showdown game. :?

                      These games can be tough and hard to beat because of the extra $1 JP rake (extra $40 - $60 per hour). They usually have a waiting list to get in the games, but $160 to $200 per hour is a lot of money leaving these loose aggressive games (for the house & JP) :x


                      • #12
                        In b@m casinos how much of the player funded jack-pot does casino keep as a surcharge ? None or is it up to casino.


                        • #13
                          When gaming commission is the governing body (this would exempt Indian casinos) all of the BBJ money MUST go back to the players. Therefore, the casino cannot keep or redirect ANY of the money in these funds. The normal proceedure is for there to be 3 JPs, the primary, which is the posted amount and the one paid when the JP hits, the 1st backup, that comes up as soon as the primary is hit, and a 2nd backup. This is done so that there is always a backup amount available so that the JP is not drained.
                          In the event a poker room is closed, for any reason and there is JP money available, the casino must submit to gaming a proposal for a "give away" of the JP money. Most I've seen have been done by random drawings, usually involving only poker players, although, when Ballys closed their poker room here, they opened the drawing up to anyone who submitted an entry at the casino.





                          • #14
                            I'll just add a quick summary...

                            Most regulars don't like the BB jackpot because:

                            1) It causes people to play many more hands and you'll never pull someone off any kind of draw that might qualify for the jackpot

                            2) It's just more money out of each pot you win that you'll likely never see again.

                            The casino benefits because they can (and do) take the money and use it for other things. They can put the money in a high interest short term investment, earning interest on players money that really isn't theirs. A bad beat jackpot is also a big draw for the tourists.

                            This has the added effect that the bad beat jackpot is very often won by a non regular to the room. The regulars watch their hard earned money walk out the door, probably never to return.

                            IMHO the bad beat jackpot is a marketing gimick that will only cost a player money in the long run. Win 500 pots in a year, the bb jackpot has cost you $500.

                            Of course, I'm a cynic