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  • more odds

    ok i know AAv KK is 4-1


    but what are AA v KQs
    and AA v AKs
    i think the KQs does better against the AA than the AK does but how much better

    rough guess is KQs is 5-1 dog AKs is 18-1,20-1 dog

  • #2
    the Odds

    AA vs AKs---AA is an approximate 8/1 favorite
    AA vs KQs---AA is an approximate 4.7/1 favorite (assuming that the suit of KQ is not the same as one of the A, if it is then AA is an approximate 5.1/1 favorite)

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    • #3
      has to be bigger than 8-1 its a hope to hit a flush or a set of kings hand


      if that is the case the biggest you can ever be ahead preflop is 8-1

      Comment


      • #4
        Check this site: http://www.maestropoker.com/java/headsup/index.html

        It will give you answer to all your questions I think.

        Sailor Moe
        2 Time Bracelet Winner

        Comment


        • #5
          that is pretty true ironside. ( i think)lol, someone once told me that if the pot was offering me ten to one odds, then i should play just about any two cards, because i may just flop a miracle. i mean, it only has to happen one in 9 times then to show a profit........that is why when more than one person in early position limp in, more people come in in later position, it was worth the call to see a flop. i wonder what the adds are of 2/7 offsuit against AA, as you can not make a straight with 2/7, at least not both working, i think this hand would give you the worst possible odds ever faced preflop.

          jmuzzey

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          • #6
            From the software I use AA vs 72o=
            black AA would win 87.24%
            red 72o 12.75%

            red AA 88.74%
            red 72o 10.78%


            --Matt--

            Comment


            • #7
              72o does better against AA than either AKo or AKs, though it is almost identical to AKo odds-wise. However 72o is terrible against 77. You can probably spot a common trait there somewhere. It's only about 7 or 8-to-1 dog verses AA and about 15-to-1 dog v 77.

              I would say the worst situations you can find yourself in, headsup and all-in, will be when you are against a pair that is the same as your highest card.

              Comment


              • #8
                the worst dogs are hands like Q2 v QQ etc with the low card being of the same suit as one of opponents
                these are something like 14-1 dogs
                a very short stacked phil hellmuth held Q2 v QQ on a late night poker and passed
                after a long rant about what a great player he was for passing when he said most "experts" would call he was shown the QQ he faced
                when asked how much of a dog he would have been he declared no worse than 7-1
                nice to know even phil doesn't know everything

                Comment


                • #9
                  ok i was trying to work this out as a new member and myself were on the same table a few times last night and saw each other get beats

                  one was me holding KK v k5s (against a wpo manaic)
                  and his was KK v my AQs

                  while we were exchanging war wounds and licking our wounds i said that the AQs was only about 2-1 dog were i thought the K5s was much bigger.

                  i used the AA v AK for terms or reference because i i thought AA v AKs would be the same as KK v k5s and 77 v 72s obviously i was wrong.


                  fidget i remember the LNP show your on about and if i remember right neither player showed hands and phil was still going on about the hand for the next 5 weeks ( ok i exagerate) trying to claim at one point that he was 2-1 favourite to 7-1 dog and back again trying to make it look like he had a big hand and not just 2 rags.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ironside
                    while we were exchanging war wounds and licking our wounds i said that the AQs was only about 2-1 dog were i thought the K5s was much bigger.
                    The other posters are right - the worst it gets is something like Q5o vs QQ (for example). Q5s and QJo a tad better, QJs ditto.

                    But "pair vs 1 higher+1 lower" e.g. AQo v KK is surprisingly 'close', about 71-29, depending on suits, so those pocket K's are never that secure.

                    Odds schmodds, I say :wink:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ok i thought (think) there are preflop only 11 odds that you must understand.

                      pair v over pair
                      pair v 2 over cards
                      pair v 2 undercards
                      pair v one of same and undercard
                      pair v one of same and overcard
                      2 overcards v 2 undercards
                      pair v one over and one undercard
                      1 over card and one under card ie (ATv kq)
                      high card low card ie(AJ v KT)
                      same high card with lower kicker ie (Ak v AQ)
                      and same low card with lower kicker ie (TJ v TQ)

                      they give all the major odds the suitedness and connectedness of the cards make a little difference but not much

                      hope that make sence

                      ps a hand like KK v Kx would be the best you can preflop in my thinking

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                      • #12
                        ok i thought (think) there are preflop only 11 odds that you must understand.
                        Hi:

                        Is there a place where I can see what these odds actually are?

                        Thanks much!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          KK v AQs is just over around 2-to-1. Over 5-to-2 if not suited. These odds apply to any pp against 1 overcard. The odds are also very similar for any matchup where someone has a higher kicker, such as AKv AQ or KJ v K2.

                          KK v K5o is a huge fav.

                          Got the table below from Sklansky and Barbara Yoon so I assume they are accurate. I've still not got around to reading this lol. Maybe next year.

                          I haven't bothered reading it as most odds and situations are pretty similar. For example, just assuming 2 high card hands that do not dominate each other are around a 3-to-2 matchup. It won't be far wrong. For example AK v 56, AK v T5 etc. All about the same 3-to-2 matchup.

                          Most matchups fall within the ballpark of the following group of 6 odds. Evens, 3-to-2, 2-to-1, 5-to-2, 4-to-1, around 10-to-1 or more.


                          1. Pair versus pair...about...4 1/2-to-1...

                          2. Pair versus two overcards...about even money.

                          3. Pair versus one overcard and one undercard...about...2 1/2-to-1...

                          4. Pair versus two undercards...typically more than...5-to-1...

                          5. Pair versus one overcard and one of the pair cards...about...2 1/3-to-1...

                          6. Pair versus one undercard and one of the pair cards...10-to-1 or more...

                          7. First and second highest versus third and fourth...usually about...9-to-5...

                          8. First and fourth highest versus second and third...usually below 7-to-5.

                          9. First and third highest versus second and fourth...about 8-to-5.

                          10. First and second highest versus duplicate of first plus third highest -- Example...K-Q versus K-J. ...usually slightly below 3-to-1.

                          11. First and second highest versus duplicate of second plus third highest -- Example: K-Q versus Q-J. ...usually between 2 3/4-to-1 and 3-to-1.

                          12 First and 3rd vs 2nd and 3rd. Ex: A-J vs K-J. The odds for match-ups in this 'category' can vary from just slightly better than a toss-up for like 4s-2h versus 3d-2d, up to as much as 3.42-to-1 for like As-2s versus Kh-2d.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Noodles
                            I would say the worst situations you can find yourself in, headsup and all-in, will be when you are against a pair that is the same as your highest card.
                            I've been working at it with Pokerstove and can confirm Noodles is right. Anybody have a matrix of Hold'em starting hands showing heads-up odds?


                            Thanks, Den

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One Minor Change

                              Noodles said:
                              6. Pair versus one undercard and one of the pair cards...10-to-1 or more...
                              This is incorrect. Sooted cards that are not of the pair and connectors make a difference. AdAh vs AsKs is about a 8/1 favorite, whereas AdAh vs Askc is about 15.7/1 favorite. JcJd vs Js10s is about a 4.8/1 favorite whereas JcJd vs Js2d is about a 20.2 favorite.

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