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  • Psychological complacent! I need help.

    Hello fellow PSO members.

    Today, I am asking for help. I genuine need help with complacent thinking.

    I have noticed over the past years, that my possible biggest leak is been complacent.

    On self review, and thinking about why I would get so complacent, so easy, and I can not find an answer with my own thought path, so thought I would seek advice.

    I have asked myself if it is just because I am playing one format, and maybe boredom setting in.

    I have asked myself, is it the fact, that I have proved to myself I can do it, when I want to do it.

    So many questions floating around in my own mind, and I can just not see an answer.


    I just can not play once I have a BR built up. I have no problem building that BR, but then I just seem to halt.
    I neither lose or win, meaning my BR tends to float along an even line.

    I do not know, I feel as if I have completed my challenge to myself, exceeded self gratification.

    What is wrong with me, why do I not like money......

    I suppose it is the fact that I have never had any real money, any sufficient amount at any one time.
    I see the world as, if I eat and have a roof over my head, then nothing else really matters.

    I am Psychological finding it hard to get past these thoughts.

    I take more pride with play chips than real money....

    I have probably posted something similar to this before. However, this is my one and only real downfall.

    I feel if I can beat this problem, then indeed I will excel as a PSO cadet.

    I have considered transfer of funds to our other site, leaving a minimal amount to play with on Stars.
    But the knowing , that is there, may have the same effect and not actually cure my problem.


    This is the hurdle I need to surpass.....


    I need to feel pressure, if there is no pressure , I have no game, I am complacent in my thinking.
    So honestly guys, I know this is not the normal poker questions, that can be answered with what we know.

    But someone tell me please, how do I surpass this way of thought..

  • #2
    Hi holdem, This is an avenue that many poker players take at least once in their journey, so rest assured you are not alone: umbup: You are doing yourself well by being honest with this situation that you are experiencing. Self criticism is the most important attribute a poker player can have. To help alleviate this.. I'd start with accomplishing some of the Time Vault Goals, that might have a significantly positive impact. Such as motivation/willingnes to put in volume and move up in stakes to feel the "pressure" and get out of the so called "comfort zone". (PokerSchoolOnline has many active and wise poker enthusiasts that can help give you a push in the right direction) Being complacent..this comes ultimately to choice..the thought comes first before the choice. Best of luck to you at the tables. CannonLee

    Quintuple Bracelet Winner

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
      Hello fellow PSO members.

      Today, I am asking for help. I genuine need help with complacent thinking.

      I have noticed over the past years, that my possible biggest leak is been complacent.

      On self review, and thinking about why I would get so complacent, so easy, and I can not find an answer with my own thought path, so thought I would seek advice.

      I have asked myself if it is just because I am playing one format, and maybe boredom setting in. (1)

      I have asked myself, is it the fact, that I have proved to myself I can do it, when I want to do it. (2)

      So many questions floating around in my own mind, and I can just not see an answer.


      I just can not play once I have a BR built up. I have no problem building that BR, but then I just seem to halt.
      I neither lose or win, meaning my BR tends to float along an even line. (3)

      I do not know, I feel as if I have completed my challenge to myself, exceeded self gratification.

      What is wrong with me, why do I not like money......

      I suppose it is the fact that I have never had any real money, any sufficient amount at any one time.
      I see the world as, if I eat and have a roof over my head, then nothing else really matters. (4)

      I am Psychological finding it hard to get past these thoughts.

      I take more pride with play chips than real money.... (5)

      I have probably posted something similar to this before. However, this is my one and only real downfall.

      I feel if I can beat this problem, then indeed I will excel as a PSO cadet.

      I have considered transfer of funds to our other site, leaving a minimal amount to play with on Stars. (6)
      But the knowing , that is there, may have the same effect and not actually cure my problem.


      This is the hurdle I need to surpass.....


      I need to feel pressure, if there is no pressure , I have no game, I am complacent in my thinking.
      So honestly guys, I know this is not the normal poker questions, that can be answered with what we know.

      But someone tell me please, how do I surpass this way of thought..







      1 --- Obvious answer. Play a different variation for a specific time, such as one week. If you can afford playing it with cash, all the better as it will force you to think about your actions.

      2 --- Based on everything I have read of yours, this statement is false. When you are winning, you call it "skill via the application of advanced theories." A losing streak results in claims worthy of the "tin foil hat brigade." More honesty when doing self review is necessary.

      3 --- Your bankroll reports have the appearance of a rollercoaster with every dip higher than each up. If I am recalling right, you have stated on too many threads the need to reload after blowing another BR. It seems any success puts you into a super-tilt until the BR hits zero. Yes, you do have moments of success, such as the time you took pennies and turned it into several dollars. Then you finished that shinny moment by reporting a BR of zero. Consistency is the key.

      4 --- Perhaps a specific goal is required. Set your sights on winning enough money to purchase something that has some appeal. My first suggestion is the program "Leak Buster." Of course, if you prefer something tangible, go for that big screen television or season tickets to your favorite sports team. It isn't a question of affording it, the challenge is to get it free. However, be realistic. Go for a $100,00 car via your winnings is foolish, while a special night out with your significant other where PokerStars paid the tab is achievable.

      5 --- From personal experience, nobody gives a (censored) how good you do with chips, it's cheques that matter. If you are finding it easier making positive inroads with play chips, than you are either lying to yourself, or have avoided the harder levels. I'm speaking from experience. The first level I played proved easy since the players acted like fools. My current level has enough serious players that the game is a challenge. If I go to the next level, I'm anticipating a greater percentage of better players.

      6 --- Something that always fascinated me about your posts. You claim a winning record on other sites, yet you continue to flush funds here. Others have expressed disbelief in your statements. I have a feeling there is something about these other sites that appeals to your style of play. Perhaps you should find out why their site appeals and PokerStars doesn't. It might be as simple as continually playing the same opponents.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CannonLee View Post
        Hi holdem, This is an avenue that many poker players take at least once in their journey, so rest assured you are not alone: umbup: You are doing yourself well by being honest with this situation that you are experiencing. Self criticism is the most important attribute a poker player can have. To help alleviate this.. I'd start with accomplishing some of the Time Vault Goals, that might have a significantly positive impact. Such as motivation/willingnes to put in volume and move up in stakes to feel the "pressure" and get out of the so called "comfort zone". (PokerSchoolOnline has many active and wise poker enthusiasts that can help give you a push in the right direction) Being complacent..this comes ultimately to choice..the thought comes first before the choice. Best of luck to you at the tables. CannonLee
        Thank you Cannon for your post, I did not know other players suffer from this, that alone as helped. And the words, the thought becomes before the choice,that as rung alarm bells in my brain. Yes it doe's, I can see that clearly now. Yes I need to put in volume, I need to stop picking off individual moments to play , and set myself more to the days I play and put in some more effort and daily volume. Thank you , yes I need to motivate myself and stop been poker idol. Thanks regards Steve
        Last edited by holdemace486; Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:38 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cairn Destop View Post
          1 --- Obvious answer. Play a different variation for a specific time, such as one week. If you can afford playing it with cash, all the better as it will force you to think about your actions.

          2 --- Based on everything I have read of yours, this statement is false. When you are winning, you call it "skill via the application of advanced theories." A losing streak results in claims worthy of the "tin foil hat brigade." More honesty when doing self review is necessary.

          3 --- Your bankroll reports have the appearance of a rollercoaster with every dip higher than each up. If I am recalling right, you have stated on too many threads the need to reload after blowing another BR. It seems any success puts you into a super-tilt until the BR hits zero. Yes, you do have moments of success, such as the time you took pennies and turned it into several dollars. Then you finished that shinny moment by reporting a BR of zero. Consistency is the key.

          4 --- Perhaps a specific goal is required. Set your sights on winning enough money to purchase something that has some appeal. My first suggestion is the program "Leak Buster." Of course, if you prefer something tangible, go for that big screen television or season tickets to your favorite sports team. It isn't a question of affording it, the challenge is to get it free. However, be realistic. Go for a $100,00 car via your winnings is foolish, while a special night out with your significant other where PokerStars paid the tab is achievable.

          5 --- From personal experience, nobody gives a (censored) how good you do with chips, it's cheques that matter. If you are finding it easier making positive inroads with play chips, than you are either lying to yourself, or have avoided the harder levels. I'm speaking from experience. The first level I played proved easy since the players acted like fools. My current level has enough serious players that the game is a challenge. If I go to the next level, I'm anticipating a greater percentage of better players.

          6 --- Something that always fascinated me about your posts. You claim a winning record on other sites, yet you continue to flush funds here. Others have expressed disbelief in your statements. I have a feeling there is something about these other sites that appeals to your style of play. Perhaps you should find out why their site appeals and PokerStars doesn't. It might be as simple as continually playing the same opponents.

          Thank you Cairn , I can always rely on you for great words of wisdom.
          Yes, you are right, I do have more stories than a story book.


          And indeed I do play better with no BR when it is at it's zero level.

          I think I have developed an imagination that come backs from nothing, and I have achieved a good performance.

          But thinking about it , although yes a good performance, also terrible play to earn it, then to lose it.

          I thank you Cairn and honesty is my new intentions. Self examination been the most important.

          The 1st of March is when I do my BR review, so until then my goals are set in stone, I am not sure if those goals are set in stone for the duration of the year as per challenge suggests.

          My main goal, to get not raged, I am managing to achieve.


          Thank you Cairn

          Regards

          Steve.

          P.s I hope my written posts are an improvement of late.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
            I just can not play once I have a BR built up. I have no problem building that BR, but then I just seem to halt.
            I neither lose or win, meaning my BR tends to float along an even line.
            Originally posted by Cairn Destop View Post
            2 --- Based on everything I have read of yours, this statement is false. When you are winning, you call it "skill via the application of advanced theories." A losing streak results in claims worthy of the "tin foil hat brigade." More honesty when doing self review is necessary.

            Maybe ... are there 2 possible explanations for your lagging interest holdem? Like it *could* in fact be the case that you have some sort of 'fear of success' or have difficulty remaining motivated once you win a certain amount?

            But I guess Cairn touches on the other possibility - that it's fun to play when we're winning, but that it's harder to stick with it when the run-bad kicks in ... hence Cairn's speculation that perhaps you're losing interest in playing because you're getting discouraged, not bored?


            If the variance is fine, and you're trying to find a way to motivate yourself to keep going, would setting a $ goal help? Not so much because you want to achieve x amount of $, but because maybe you'll want to prove to the skeptics that you can do it?


            And if it's the variance, well ... I'm in the middle of a huge patch of run-bad myself, so I better not use this spot to go on and on about my own game.

            Hmmm, how about this ... you have any hands that you wish you'd played differently holdem? There's always so many tricky post-flop situations in poker, surely you must have a couple? And sometimes after I've looked over stuff I wish I'd played differently, then that makes me more eager to go back and play because I feel like I'll be playing better the next time and I want to have the chance to practice the stuff I just learned?


            I don't know ... guess I'll go play for a lil bit (lil < little), then watch more vids tonight ... guess it's important to take a lot of breaks too when we're experiencing a rough patch, isn't it? Sometimes I forget that I think ...

            Comment


            • #7
              PS Did they just make the font larger? umbup:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TrustySam View Post
                ..
                And if it's the variance, well ... I'm in the middle of a huge patch of run-bad myself, so I better not use this spot to go on and on about my own game.

                ...
                Talking of variance when you only refer to it as a bad patch is one of the worst habits a poker player can develop. It leads to thinking that hot streaks are great play and cold streaks are somebodies else's fault. I've been on some hellacious rushes where everything was hitting and the longer it went the worse my poker became.

                Variance is a two headed coin where we frequently just pay attention to just one side.

                Good decisions FTW!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  if all of the above fail,just ship the money to me Ill make sure you are challenged trying to get it back
                  2012 Double Bracelet Winner

                  Bracelet Winner

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A Very Different Perspective

                    No doubt because I am far newer to poker, but as a bridge pro, I consciously focus on when I do well and why. This perspective keeps me from coming down on myself. It is the way I teach bridge as we know positive re-inforcement is key. Sure I know by now the major mistakes I make in poker and I do register them and somehow remember them so that next time I try not to have a sense of deja vu! Oh well, maybe it's a newer player's 'high' on the game but I am told by others that it is the way I live my life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
                      Talking of variance when you only refer to it as a bad patch is one of the worst habits a poker player can develop. It leads to thinking that hot streaks are great play and cold streaks are somebodies else's fault. I've been on some hellacious rushes where everything was hitting and the longer it went the worse my poker became.

                      Variance is a two headed coin where we frequently just pay attention to just one side.

                      Oh, forget I mentioned my game at all ...

                      Just sticking to the more general, think I've mentioned this before, but anybody else ever noticed how all the profitable players tend to have certain things in common - like everybody's super hard on themselves!!! Thinks they suck, calls themselves idiots, sees stuff they wish they did differently even when they lost to a 2-outer, etc.

                      Like on some level, I think everybody knows they're not that bad

                      But maybe you can't be a winning player at poker without being like that? Because the rake's so high, the competition's so tough, there's a lot of variance, etc - like it's important to always be looking for an edge?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you all for the great posts. It is me and not variance. I am playing so reckless, variance doe's not stand a chance to get me. I am open shoving ,out and out gambling, watching the television as I play. On a good note I am watching EPT. Maybe shipping my chips over to someone may be an idea as Chilli suggests. Thank you Doctor Ellen for your post , I see I do need to view from my perspective why I do well, and keep that in mind to keep my feet on the ground.umbup: And I agree Joe, variance is a constant and not in groups, although at times it can feel that way.umbup: And thank you Sam, words of wisdom, yes I am rubbish, I am terrible, ggrrrrr, that is good reverse Psychology, I may try it.umbup: Why oh why, I ask myself why. I am shoving ace rags, that is just so rubbish. I keep having flashes of skill then I am hit and miss at the moment. Nearly every one I have lost, I had the chips to make the last 18 no problem. Even at times enough chips to make final table. Spewing, I am just so rubbish. I am just chucking it....grrrr. At least this time, I am stopping myself from complete disaster by looking for the answer. I have also gone in the Psychology section of the science forum I have joined, and asked them to do there head shrinking magic lol. I think for now, I may just rest and get some play chip action in. Learning to find that fold button again. Thank you all

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From holdem's blog:

                          No longer shall I refer to variance or tilt, as a simplified view I will now see it as an ironic state.

                          To win, we have to stay calm, but also there is a sense that a person needs to be angry also, with themselves. This keeps a perspective and thier feet firmly on the ground.
                          Ahhh, shucks ... guess when I gave that answer to Joe I was trying to just take the path of least resistance. But now I see that my comment could be interpreted differently than I intended for it to be ... because I didn't think anybody was really paying attention, etc lol

                          This is jmo, and I could totally see how others could easily disagree. But I'm not sure it's possible to become profitable without (1) acknowledging the existence of variance, and (2) being able to accurately assess when the variance is normal, better than average, or worse than average.

                          Because I think you need to be able to tell when you win or lose, whether it was because of run-good and/or good play, or run-bad and/or bad play, or run-good and/or bad play, or run-bad and/or good play?

                          Like if you're experiencing run-bad, you don't want to change too much of your game. But if you were just running hot before and you're not profitable ... like you need to be able to tell the difference so that you CAN change your game so that your winrate will improve?


                          I guess that's really what I wanted to say, but instead took the easy route ... but this is jmo! Probably others disgree!

                          Guess it's really just a idea more than like the absolute truth? Oh I don't know ... that's why I didn't want to say anything in the first place :/ Gonna go play for a lil bit now I guess ... hope that wasn't super confusing ...
                          Last edited by TrustySam; Fri Feb 15, 2013, 12:15 AM. Reason: omg, so apparently it's 'resistance' and not 'resistence'??? Next time, please somebody tell me!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TrustySam View Post
                            From holdem's blog: Ahhh, shucks ... guess when I gave that answer to Joe I was trying to just take the path of least resistence. But now I see that my comment could be interpreted differently than I intended for it to be ... because I didn't think anybody was really paying attention, etc lol This is jmo, and I could totally see how others could easily disagree. But I'm not sure it's possible to become profitable without (1) acknowledging the existence of variance, and (2) being able to accurately assess when the variance is normal, better than average, or worse than average. To be honest Sam, correct. But I refuse to let any other way of thinking sway my thought. I can not even donk an hand. I have even regrouped and tightened up, but when I just keep missing boards, my prefered choice is to just shove preflop. I can only recall seeing Aces once in about a estimated 20 games. And that one time is about as best as its been. Because I think you need to be able to tell when you win or lose, whether it was because of run-good and/or good play, or run-bad and/or bad play, or run-good and/or bad play, or run-bad and/or good play? Like if you're experiencing run-bad, you don't want to change too much of your game. But if you were just running hot before and you're not profitable ... like you need to be able to tell the difference so that you CAN change your game so that your winrate will improve? I guess that's really what I wanted to say, but instead took the easy route ... but this is jmo! Probably others disgree! Guess it's really just a idea more than like the absolute truth? Oh I don't know ... that's why I didn't want to say anything in the first place :/ Gonna go play for a lil bit now I guess ... hope that wasn't super confusing ...
                            And no Sam, I understand your view completely, these streaks make me feel like I can not even play the game... I ask myself often is it just a lucky run. I adjust my strategy and play that works, as I see the dry patches. And often then lose lots. I then think revert to the strategy that worked, then I still lose so adjust again. However if maybe I stick to the one strategy , then maybe this will continue to work. I just do not know either Sam, I go from world class to world class fish over night. Take down a couple of min itms to keep the interest going. It feels like variance as breaks on it, and some people are just lucky and advance, yet some people are stopped in their tracks. So maybe it is best to forget about variance and call it Ironic. I do not know, from ninja to whinger lol... It as got to change soon.... Gl Sam umbup:
                            Last edited by holdemace486; Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:31 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by holdemace486 View Post
                              And no Sam, I understand your view completely, these streaks make me feel like I can not even play the game... I ask myself often is it just a lucky run. I adjust my strategy and play that works, as I see the dry patches. And often then lose lots. I then think revert to the strategy that worked, then I still lose so adjust again. However if maybe I stick to the one strategy , then maybe this will continue to work. I just do not know either Sam, I go from world class to world class fish over night. Take down a couple of min itms to keep the interest going. It feels like variance as breaks on it, and some people are just lucky and advance, yet some people are stopped in their tracks. So maybe it is best to forget about variance and call it Ironic. I do not know, from ninja to whinger lol... It as got to change soon.... Gl Sam umbup:
                              If you are adjusting your strategy based on winning or losing pots you will always be a losing player. The goal is not to win the most pots but to win the most money. You adjust your strategy to account for what is called table dynamics. Table dynamics is a broad term referring to the combination of variables the table. Things like the stacks in relation to the blinds and to the other stacks at your table, the play of your opponents, your image, your position relative the weak and strong players, which opponents can be manipulated those whop can't. These are not static items so you also must be aware of how they are changing. You decide whether or not to stop playing based mostly on the quality of your decisions. If you're recognizing the situations and making good decisions you continue until that changes or some external reason. The quality of your decisions is not measured by how many post you are winning. You are making good decisions when you are recognizing the individual situations and optimally reacting to them. In order for this to be accurate you must be brutally honest with yourself, but you've head that several times before. Losing players tend to blame others for their losses and take credit for the wins. That is being results oriented which is a huge fail at poker. Good decisions!

                              Comment

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