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    WRGPT email tournament. No-limit holdem. About 1000 players started, maybe more. 8th hand of the tournament. I am interested in your views about how you would have played in this situation.

    Everyone roughly 10k stacks. 50/100 blinds with no ante. The table is 10 handed and I am on the button with A :h: A :c: .

    Folded to the cut-off who limps in. I raise the pot size to $450. BB calls and the cut-off calls. Pot size is now $1400.

    Cut-off has 10200 left, BB has 8950 left, and I have 9900 remaining.

    FLOP = 6 :h: J :h: 6 :d:

    BB checks. The cut-off bets the pot size of $1400.

    What we know about the cut-off - During the first 7 hands, I only saw them see one flop and that was by checking in the BB. They then bet the pot on both the flop and turn, winning without a showdown.

    What we know about the BB - During the first 7 hands we saw them enter 2 pots. 1 with a raise to $200 and 1 with a limp. They did not reach showdown either time as they folded on the flop/turn, giving up the pot.

    It's you to act. $2800 in the pot, $1400 to call, 9.9k in your stack with your 2 opponents having similar sized stacks, and the BB still to act behind you. How do you plan to play the hand from now on, and what are your reasons/thinking behind each action?

  • #2
    All-in. Fatten up or avoid further dealing with this absurd format.

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't put them on a 6.

      I don't know enough about them to put them on a JJ.

      I have to put them on an AJ, KJ, or a pure steal.


      Randall


      Of course one of the most common ways I bust out of a tourney is for someone to play Q6 to my pot-sized preflop raise, then catch 66x, so what do I know.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cut off limped in with middle hearts. You need another heart. Braveheart??


        8O

        'Goddess

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm putting the cutoff on AJ or 2 big hearts, not JJ with the preflop limp.
          If they have 66 that's just tough.

          All-in knocks them (perhaps) off their flush draw, but doesn't milk the situation. It doesn't milk them if they have AJ/KJ either.

          Meantime, the BB could have many hands including a 6x. WRGPT is madness.

          So ... raise a good chunk. 1500, say.
          If the BB gets excited, fold. They have a 6.
          If the BB folds and the cutoff gets excited, go with it. They have a J.

          In practice though, I raise all-in :lol:

          cheers

          Glenn

          Comment


          • #6
            ALL IN.

            Comment


            • #7
              All in

              Comment


              • #8
                of this type of message. More than anything I am struggling with how to bet and when and WHY. If its already at PSO I haven't found it.

                I wish, I wish - I could have someone sit over my shoulder while I play and challenge me - "why did you do that?" "What are you hoping to get with that?" "That was the wrong play and here's why..." This thread lets me see what others are thinking instead of just watching them pull my chips into their pile and realizing that I made the wrong choice.

                While I've learned a feel for position and a feel for reading the table I remain completely lost with consistent betting that pulls in information and then, most importantly, being able to interpret what I just learned.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mstrsig
                  While I've learned a feel for position and a feel for reading the table I remain completely lost with consistent betting that pulls in information and then, most importantly, being able to interpret what I just learned.
                  Good point.
                  I'd guess 95% of the tuition here at PSO is geared to limit poker.
                  95% of the play is big-bet ......

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm raisin double the pot - about 6K. That should see off the cuttoff with his flush draw or AJ, KJ. If the BB calls then I would expect to be toast against a trips. If he calls, I check fold the turn (unless its another heart) and i've still got 4K to take advantage of him overprotectin his blind!

                    Regards
                    HH

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mstrsig
                      of this type of message. More than anything I am struggling with how to bet and when and WHY. If its already at PSO I haven't found it.
                      If you don't know how much to bet, then usually bet the full pot size. It will most probably be the right bet to make. You need a specific reason to bet more or less than this. If the pot bet is a significant portion of your stack then make the bet an all-in one instead. With this AA hand, on the flop with this amount left to be bet. The proper size bet, if the AA decided to raise in response to the cut-offs bet, then the proper raise should be all-in as a pot raise would take half of the remaining stacks.

                      I will give my thoughts later. I thought I had 2 possible actions available to me in this spot, with raising all-in 1 of them. This is usually the correct thing to do in this spot because we should play this close situation committally due to the depth of money. However, I did not do this, though I still played committally. I took the alternative option, though I was unsure which one to take at the time. There was confusion there whether the alternative was a viable option or whether it was a mistake.

                      I have since found out that the action I did take was a viable choice in this spot, though the reasons were slightly different from what I thought at the time. Now, all I need to do is disect this hand for the main reasons why it is a viable option in this spot, so I can know when it becomes an option from the usual all-in raise in future situations. Nobody has yet suggested this alternative action, that I actually took, and the reasons why it is a viable option in this spot.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HatchetHarry
                        I'm raisin double the pot - about 6K. That should see off the cuttoff with his flush draw or AJ, KJ.
                        The 6k amount is a bad amount with these stack/pot positions. If you do raise, then it must be all-in. Why would you want to see off top pair? Do you not like doubling through? Doubling through should always be your aim if you are going to play a close situation such as this, otherwise the risk/reward isn't worth it. I think raising all-in here and having the cut-off fold all hands that you have beat, is a poor reward for the risk I am taking. If I'm taking that risk then I want a chance that my opponent will call and double me through with hands that I bury.

                        I have also been informed that an all-in raise by me would not get a good player to fold the flush draw due to the math and psychology reasons in this example. Though I have still not figured out why that would be the case. When I do, I am sure it will be very instuctive for future situations.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HatchetHarry
                          I'm raisin double the pot - about 6K. That should see off the cuttoff with his flush draw or AJ, KJ. If the BB calls then I would expect to be toast against a trips. If he calls, I check fold the turn (unless its another heart) and i've still got 4K to take advantage of him overprotectin his blind!

                          Regards
                          HH
                          Also, in the unlikely event your opponent calls your flop raise, then you have to call if they bet all-in on the turn regardless of whether the 4th heart came, due to the situation created by your flop bet size. However, it is much more likely they will just shove all-in on the flop in response to your raise, with any hand they will go with, with or without a 6, so you still have to call.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have also been informed that an all-in raise by me would not get a good player to fold the flush draw due to the math and psychology reasons in this example.
                            A "good" player wouldn't be in there with a flush draw since you have the A of suit. This is no-limit after all.

                            Your pre-flop raise should have been greater as well so that these questions wouldn't have come up. With such a small raise, they think of it almost as limping because it's not a big % of your stack. If they can afford to call with a 6 in their hand in NLHE, you undercharged them. Otherwise you have way the best.

                            I still see no alternative to going all in.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Noodles
                              The 6k amount is a bad amount with these stack/pot positions. If you do raise, then it must be all-in. Why would you want to see off top pair? Do you not like doubling through? Doubling through should always be your aim if you are going to play a close situation such as this, otherwise the risk/reward isn't worth it. .
                              LOL - I know i'm the twelth man here but.....

                              With the possibility that the cuttoff is as likely holding a flush draw as top pair, I'm sticking with the raise. Outcomes would be as follows.

                              BB calls or re-raises all in - Cuttoff folds or calls. I fold to the re-raise or fold to any bet on the turn. Still got enough to win me the tourny.

                              BB folds, Cuttoff calls. If a 4th heart falls I agree I have to call all in (on the basis that he would equally go all in with top pair, being the value in the pot) but should he have the goods, then I'll be happy that i'm getting value from his bets any time I play against him.

                              BB folds, Cuttoff raises all in. I call and if my read was right and he wins, I refer to the above.

                              With a pair on the board, I'm not definate I'm ahead. In such a case, you can take the pot with any 2 cards and i'm not in the least bit phased by this. As i'll get em back in the long run.

                              Cheers
                              HH

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