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Ace Speaks Practice Hand # 4

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  • Ace Speaks Practice Hand # 4

    The game:
    $20-40 hold'em, seven-handed, no rake (you are paying time)

    The situation:
    You are in the big blind, holding A2 of spades. Everybody folds to the cutoff, a very aggressive player who plays even more aggressively when you are in the hand. Since he perceives you as a nit, a very tight player who is always just waiting-waiting-waiting, he will do everything he can to bet you out of the pot- and then show you his bluff, too! However, because EVERYBODY can pick up a premium hand once in a while, you cannot automatically assume that your opponent holds nothing- despite the fact that he often bets with nothing.

    PREFLOP
    Everybody folds to the cutoff, who raises. Both the button and the small blind fold. What do you do? (on a scale from 1 to 10: 1=horrible, 10=superb)
    a) fold
    b) call
    c) raise- if he reraises, fold
    d) raise- if he reraises, call (no reraising possible: three raises max.)

    FLOP
    Assuming you both see the flop, and it comes Ah8d4c- what do you do?
    a) check- if he bets, fold
    b) check- if he bets, call
    c) check- if he bets, raise- whenever he raises back, fold
    d) check- if he bets, raise- whenever he raises back, call
    e) check- if he bets, raise- whenever he raises back, raise again
    f) bet- if he raises, fold
    g) bet- if he raises, call
    h) bet- if he raises, raise again- whenever he fourbets, fold
    i) bet- if he raises, raise again- whenever he fourbets, call
    j) bet- if he raises, raise again- whenever he fourbets, raise again*

    *in heads up situations, no cap on raises

    TURN
    Assuming both of you see the turn, and it comes 8s- what do you do?

    (same options as on flop)

    RIVER
    Assuming both of you see the river, and it comes 3h- what do you do?

    (same options as on flop and turn)

    Please rate EVERY option I have given, on EVERY street, so I can see your line of reasoning throughout the entire hand. Also please give the reasons WHY you think a specific play is better than others. In a couple of days, I will give you my view on the situation. Take care, you guys, and good luck,

    Rolf.

  • #2
    Re: Ace Speaks Practice Hand # 4

    Just learning, but i'll have a pop at this!



    Originally posted by Rolf
    The game:
    $20-40 hold'em, seven-handed, no rake (you are paying time)

    The situation:
    You are in the big blind, holding A2 of spades. Everybody folds to the cutoff, a very aggressive player who plays even more aggressively when you are in the hand. Since he perceives you as a nit, a very tight player who is always just waiting-waiting-waiting, he will do everything he can to bet you out of the pot- and then show you his bluff, too! However, because EVERYBODY can pick up a premium hand once in a while, you cannot automatically assume that your opponent holds nothing- despite the fact that he often bets with nothing.

    PREFLOP
    Everybody folds to the cutoff, who raises. Both the button and the small blind fold. What do you do? (on a scale from 1 to 10: 1=horrible, 10=superb)
    a) fold =7
    b) call =8
    c) raise- if he reraises, fold =3
    d) raise- if he reraises, call (no reraising possible: three raises max.) =5

    Reasoning: Assuming you've had to put down a few hands to previous steals, I think calling is the best option (although it would be a close call between that and folding if the texture of the table was loose, I might wait for a better oppotunity.)

    FLOP
    Assuming you both see the flop, and it comes Ah8d4c- what do you do?
    a) check- if he bets, fold = flop -3, turn - 8 (dependant on flop play), River - 1
    b) check- if he bets, call = flop - 5, turn -8 (dependant on flop play), River - 6
    c) check- if he bets, raise- whenever he raises back, fold =Flop - 4, Turn - 4, River - 1
    d) check- if he bets, raise- whenever he raises back, call = flop -7, turn - 2, River - 2
    e) check- if he bets, raise- whenever he raises back, raise again = flop -8, Turn -2, River - 1
    f) bet- if he raises, fold = flop - 3, Turn - 6, River - 4
    g) bet- if he raises, call = flop 5, Turn -3, River 1
    h) bet- if he raises, raise again- whenever he fourbets, fold =flop 1, Turn -1, River 1
    i) bet- if he raises, raise again- whenever he fourbets, call =flop 3, turn -1, River 1
    j) bet- if he raises, raise again- whenever he fourbets, raise again=flop 1, Turn -1, River 1*

    *in heads up situations, no cap on raises

    Reasoning: I'm playin on from my call preflop, and in this situation, I would expect a player of this makeup to bet into me (regardless of holding if I check to him) so I would favour the check-raise! I'm not sure if I should re-raise should he make it 3 bets, it might be a better play than calling purely to get some feel for the hand before the turn.


    TURN
    Assuming both of you see the turn, and it comes 8s- what do you do?

    Reasoning: If he 3 bet my raise on the flop, I'm folding here. If he called my re-raise, i'm checking and calling if he bets

    RIVER
    Assuming both of you see the river, and it comes 3h- what do you do?

    Reasoning: If i'm still in the hand I'm checking and calling. Definately won't fold to a bet here! (Only way i'd still be in the hand is if he'd cold called my flop check raise, and checked or flat called to the river)

    I'm not normally as passive as this, but if he's still in the hand after the flop check raise , then the only thing i'm gonna be doin is callin to the river (even if I loose, it will help my image for future hands!)

    I'm not too good at this at the sec, but that's just an honest take on how i'd face the situation.

    (same options as on flop and turn)

    Please rate EVERY option I have given, on EVERY street, so I can see your line of reasoning throughout the entire hand. Also please give the reasons WHY you think a specific play is better than others. In a couple of days, I will give you my view on the situation. Take care, you guys, and good luck,

    Rolf.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rolf
      With great respect, there's not much point offering "fold" as a pre-flop option if you then give 10 options for the flop play

      This might be a 'tell' you need to work on :wink:
      Or is it a bluff ?? 8O

      Regards

      Glenn

      Comment


      • #4
        Since you are already heads-up pre-flop, why can't you keep raising?

        I would get about five bets in preflop and then check-call the rest of the way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by geezer
          Since you are already heads-up pre-flop, why can't you keep raising?
          Because someone else's money (small blind's) is already in the pot, action is not deemed to be headsup.

          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Heres my first shot.

            Preflop,
            A 9 live to fight another day.
            B 7 I want to see the flop cheap as posible if I play it
            c 1 from the sound of the player you know he will reraise
            d 2 better than c but not worth the raise I want a cheap flop

            flop
            A 1 the flop Is not going to get much better than that chances are it didnt hit him ether, what kind of hands was he showing the blufs with?72o? 89s?
            B 5 top pair no kicker need cheap help on turn and river
            c 2 raise and I'll get poped again too expencive
            D 2 I dont think a check raise would work
            E 2 same as d
            F 1 you know he'll rase you back save the 20 bucks
            g 7 best option to me show strength but see turn and river relitivly cheap
            h I J way to expencive for top pair no kicker

            turn
            the 8 screws you top two but no kicker
            A5
            b6
            g8 you might have best hand and if you bet out last time you can rep the trip 8's
            c,d,e,f,h,i,j 1
            he could have anything. any A, k8 q8 98 78 this hand is to expesive and weak to do much else

            river
            still no help
            B7
            g5
            all others 1
            if we played this to the river you might as well see what he has I do not think a bet will buy it, so I going to go cheap. I I win great If I lose I saved money.(not as much as not playing it)

            but what do I know
            --Matt--

            Comment


            • #7
              preflop...there is no way I lay this hand down. I'd say 15% of the time, I'll go for a call and the other 85% of the time, I'd reraise the cutoff and call his capped bet, if he makes one.

              postflop, if I do not hit my hand on any street, I will check-call him down with my ace high. If I hit my hand as described on the A84 flop, I probably try to get 4 or 5 bets in on the flop, allowing him to be the final aggressor. When the 8 pairs on the turn, I go for a check-raise and if he reraises, I just call. If he checks behind me on the turn, I still go for the check-call on the river as I would if he had 3 bet my turn bet. No way I lay down top pair against that aggressive a player, unless I got a major read on him. One thing to consider is that you just described this player as being hyper aggressive, some players like this still understand what they are doing, if I recognize this player to be at that level of thinking. I may drop into a check-call mode on the turn after the massive amount of betting preflop and on the flop (which is a no-brainer considering the dynamics of the situation).

              Later,
              dc

              Comment


              • #8
                ok, lets give this a try:
                preflop:
                a: fold-6
                b: call-6
                c: raise, fold-2
                d: raise,call- 2
                i see no sense in raising, i am out of position, against a very aggressive player, who will not back down against me. also, unless i flop a miracle straight, i have no kicker with my ace, so if i pair up the ace, i would still need to be a little cautious here.

                on the flop:
                a: 1
                b: 5
                c: 3
                d: 7
                e: 3
                i have now flopped a pair of aces, but again, i have no kicker. it is possible that he has a real hand, but i would like to test the waters with a check raise to see where i stand. if i check and just call, i get no information about his hand at all. i am not prepared to check and fold, as i know he is going to bet no matter what kind of flop comes out, so i would check and raise to see if he just calls or reraises, as he seems like the type of player that refuses to just give up a pot to me. i would not reraise, as i said before, he may have a real hand, so i would most likely go into a check call mode, even though i know this can be considered a weak play. i also would not like to come out betting on this flop, because if i do have the better hand, i want the extra money in the pot with the check raise, as i know he is going to bet. so answers f thru j i wouldnt like at all.

                on the turn and on the river:
                in both cases i would definitley go into check call mode, because he could be playing any two cards, so he very well may hold a hand such as 7/8 or 2/5 or AK or anything. the board pairing with the 8 on the turn made it rather scary with this type of player. no one had entered the pot yet, and he loves to take my money thinking i am a tight player. so as the board gets scarier and scarier, he will keep betting, almost knowing that i am not playing small cards trying to get me to fold. i just think raising here would be the wrong play, as too many hands beat me, but checking and calling would be the best way to go. i wouldnt fold, given the size of the pot and being heads up. i odnt know if i am right or not, but this just seems liek a scary board and hand to get in a riasing war with........

                jmuzzey

                Comment


                • #9
                  Practice hand # 4: My view

                  Thanks for your replies, guys. This hand was a bit complicated with so many options, but in my opinion this is the way to think in poker- I usually don't agree with people who think you either fold, call or raise. IMO, you choose an action, knowing what you will probably do in response to your opponent's REACTION. In this case, because you are up against a habitual bluffer, you do nothing fancy. You will usually either check and call- or make one bet, and when he raises, you call him down. If you decide to fold your marginal hand, you do this before the flop, or at the latest ON the flop (if you think your kicker is no good). But with a lot of money in the pot (i.e., at the later streets), you just cannot afford to fold a possible winner.

                  Against an average, fairly-good-but-not-great player, you might bet on the flop, turn or river, and then fold to a raise, knowing you're beat. But against this type of overaggressive player, this would be the worst possible play.

                  OK, just for an indication, here are the figures as I see them:

                  PREFLOP
                  a) 5
                  b) 7
                  c) 2
                  d) 6

                  FLOP/TURN/RIVER
                  a) 5/4/3
                  b) 7/7/8
                  c) 3/3/2
                  d) 6/4/4
                  e) 5/4/3

                  f) 4/4/2
                  g) 7/6/6
                  h) 3/3/2
                  i) 6/5/3
                  j) 5/4/2

                  These figures show that in my opinion it is best NOT to become too aggressive with your hand on the later streets. Even against players this aggressive, you will usually only get played back at, or even called, when you are beat. But still you cannot afford to fold because after all, he IS a frequent bluffer. I especially don't like check-raising against this type of player. If you check-raise him on the turn, he might very well fold in case he is bluffing (and you lose that one extra bluff bet on the river), but if your A2 is NOT good and he has you beat, he might very well re-raise and you will be forced to pay him off (in this situation, you will lose two full bets compared to the 'obvious' check-call).

                  Conclusion: against this type of overly aggressive player, you should usually simply let him do the betting, so he can bluff off his money. In this specific case this would be a good strategy because you are holding top pair with aces, and therefore there are not many free cards that can beat you. With a hand of lesser strength, there ARE a lot of cards that can beat you- and therefore, checking and calling is not necessarily the best approach anymore.

                  I hope you all liked this practice hand. I especially liked JMuzzey's analysis- in fact, I don't have that much to add to it, because he analyzed things perfectly, IMO. The analysis by HatchetHarry was also good, but his willingness to fold when played back at would be better against opponents who are playing reasonably well than against frequent bluffers, who will try to use the scariness of the board AGAINST you (knowing YOU are probably not loaded for bear either, being in the big blind). Take care, you guys, and good luck,
                  Rolf.

                  Comment

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