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  • Online Poker

    Could someone help me with online poker rooms. I have a series of questions that I would like answered. I have played at Paradise a few times with minimum $50 buy ins. I won a huge amount once, cashed out with a little profit once, and lost my buy-in 4 times. I'm up a total of $131 at Paradise overall. I've just had a really big score at Tunica this past weekend. If I wanted to put some money back into an online poker room where I could play low limits and not have to worry about variance swings, but only worry about playing solid, what would I do?

    First, where would I go? Paradise is much, much tougher than any of the games that I have played in at Tunica, even at the .50/1 level. The .50/1 level at Paradise is much tougher than even the 4/8 or 5/10 levels at Tunica. I have even watched many 10/20 games that were easier than this .5/1. This past weekend, I was in several hands with 9 people seeing the flop. These types of games are ideal, of course. But they don't happen online.

    That said, if there is a better place to go, I'd like to go there. I want to go somewhere where I've got a chance of winning instead of pissing away my money to a rake in a game where 20% of the people see the flop. I realize that these games may be beatable for some, but why even play in them if there are more lucrative games out there?

    2) How much bankroll should be invested?

    I have $500 in winnings. Should I put in $500 for playing 1/2 and lower? This would be close to the 300BB rule that is often used. That is for professionals, of course, which I am not. Would the same rules apply to me? Part of the idea here is to get an idea of how I play over a longer term than just one session. For instance, if I lose 300BB over the course of time, doesn't that prove that I'm a losing player?

    3) Deposit Bonuses?

    Might as well get as much free money as possible

    4) Frequent player promotions and other types of promotions?

    Paradise seems to lag significantly in this category.

    5) Game selection?

    Paradise appears to have the most games going, but, IMO, this also has a big drawback. I'm always having to switch tables b/c tables break up quickly. Also, any benefit I got from table image is shot. I also have to learn how the new players play every time I go to a new table. The games do appear a little looser at certain other sites as well.

    Anyway, do any of you have any advice?

  • #2
    Diej, I had the same problem with Paradise at the micro limits altho I didn't take away as much as you. Way to go! Check out Geezer's posts regarding his success at the $50 NL ring games there.

    I decided I needed a game with avg pot sizes greater than 8BBs. I found Party Poker, Planet Poker and 24Hr very accomadating. Party has more games than the others and I've also banked $300 in bonus' so far. 24Hr has the easiest games, but hard to get one started. Also, their tournys are easy (compared to PSO competition). Planet Poker is in between those two. I recommend Party, just don't sit at my table. :lol:

    As for bankroll if you play very tight and aggressive as I do 100BB should enough. I haven't played above $1/2 so you may need 300BB above that.



    • #3
      Why are they tougher? COLLUSION. Keep playing live and stay away from online paysites. Sooner or later, the crooks will get you.


      • #4
        I stick mostly to online multi table tourneys, where collusion would be very hard to do.

        Or I'll play the micro limits in PLO8 where collusion would matter little. In these games you can play virtually for the nuts and do well. Plus the stakes are so small, the likelihood of collusion is small.

        In HE, you virtually never hit the nuts. Knowing what cards are out there in others' hands matter much much more.



        • #5
          Originally posted by apryllshowers
          Why are they tougher? COLLUSION. Keep playing live and stay away from online paysites. Sooner or later, the crooks will get you.
          I tend to agree with Apryl, although I think there is much less, if any, regular collusion going on at the .50/1.00 levels. The only time I venture into the ring games is when they offer a deposit bonus and you have to play some set number of raked hands in order to cash out the bonus. Other than that, I stick to the single table NL tournies, typically in the $11-$33 range, with the occasional $55 or $109 thrown in for a little excitement. I feel that the impact of collusion in a single table tourney is relatively limited compared to the cash games, especially at the higher levels. In the tourneys, I haven't ever gotten the feeling that I've been a victim of collusion or other cheating, and I've managed to build up a decent bankroll, from a $100 deposit bonus all the way to $600.

          Anyone else have thoughts on collusion effects in ring versus tournies? Am I wrong to think this way?


          • #6

            I'm curious...Do you think that collusion is a problem even in the low limit .50/1 games? It seems like this would be not nearly as lucrative for colluders. I could see, however, where one might wish to practice collusion on micro tables before moving up. Mico table players may think that they are under the radar.

            Also, at what level do you think that collusion becomes a real threat. I know that you have played all the way up to the very highest limits online. Is is .50/1, 3/6, 5/10? I'm curious. I would much prefer playing live but I'm more than an hour from the casino at present. Maybe I should just forget about online poker and play my 2/4, 3/6, and 4/8 games in Tunica that I feel so confident about (because many of the other players are terrible). My results in Tunica have been good lately, but I worry if the rake and jackpot drop are too much to make the game beatable in the long run. That is also prefaced by me be a winning player, which I have no idea about. I just know that I am much better than before but I also know that I thought too highly of myself from the beginnning. This confidence makes you feel silly when you move up to the next level of thinking about the game. I don't know if I've reached the winning player level yet or not. I just know that I am better than before.



            • #7
              I would start to worry about collusion at the 3/6 level on up. Personally, I can't imagine playing any higher than that online because the potential for cheating is astronomical IMO.

              I think that although there is a long drive involved, you should try to play as much live poker as possible to grow as a player. The problem with playing microlimits (.50/1.00) online is that I think you will develop some habits which may be tough to recognize and break when you are playing 3/6, 4/8, 5/10 live.

              But with that disclaimer, I will admit that I played a lot of .50/1.00 at Party Poker (trying to earn bonus chips for the Party Poker Million mostly, or get deposit bonuses released) and I think there is value in just getting lots of hands under your belt (depends on whose hands they are... 8) ). Particularly helpful is practice reading the flop texture and also the game conditions and adjusting appropriately (eg...not a lot or no preflop raising with lots of limpers, you can play lots of suited and even unsuited connectors all the way down to 45...that kind of thing).


              • #8
                Online Play

                This is a really interesting post to me, as up to now (with the exception of 2 live games) i've played all my poker online.
                I play at Paradise (2/4, 3/6) and the $10 & $20 buck tourney's. Also I enjoy the Pokerstars Multi table $10 & $20 buck buy in.

                I'm about Evens on Pokerstars (probably the wrong side of evens, but i'm an eternal optimist -)) and on Paradise my 2nd initial investment of $50 is balancing at $650 at the sec, but i've had it up to $800.

                I've heard that these sites are pretty tough, but hav'nt had the inclination to move as yet being that I've managed to remain playing with their dollars rather than my own.

                I tend to find that the average players seeing the flop is between 20% & 30% in the 2/4 & 3/6 games, although i've sat in a couple of 50 - 60 % games on a sunday which have rewarded me well. But loose games don't last long as too many players are queing up to eat up the live players!

                As for collusion, I certainly don't dismiss it (in fact I'd be mad to think that it did'nt exist), but I still hold the opinion that the poker sites make their best efforts to control it and no matter wether it is there or not, players will alway's feel that Internet Poker is fixed whether by collusion or other means.

                Being from the UK, I'm made up that I can play when I want in the confort of my own home, as there are virtually no cash games and the only tourney's are weekly and at unsociable hours.

                I'm jealous as hell when I read about how loose the live limit games are in Southern California and other places (I don't know where tunica is but i'd sure like to visit). But hopefully limit will catch on here eventually and us UK players can jump on the bandwagon.

                As for where to play, I put more importance on the performance and my like for the software than the strength of the game! I think I would change that opinion when moving up in limit, but I still don't feel emotionally right for that yet. (Hence coming to this wonderful school!)

                Anyway good luck wherever you end up, not much advice in the post, but I can assure you there's money to be made!

                Best Regards


                • #9
                  Collusion happens at all levels online. I know for sure it happens at 1-2 and 2-4. Below that, I don't know.


                  • #10

                    If I remember rightly you still play online, yet you are convinced that collusion exists. How do you manage to steer clear of trouble when you play?




                    • #11
                      Ego and results driven--I play teams all the time in B & M games and win so I figured I could do it online, and for the most part I win but at a very small rate. However, since learning of teams of players that play in the same game and populate up to 90% of the seats, I have given up online paysites completely. Having only 1 "mark" at the table certainly explains some of the ludicrous beats that happen as 9 players are virtually freerolling unless you get hit with the deck and leave.

                      I think pot limit and no limit would not be as vulnerable to this type of cheating, so if you must play online play those games.


                      • #12
                        I agree with apryll on playing pot and nolimit games....but I also play $1-2 limit at PStars and win, playing a very tight game. Also I would suggest anyone new to online poker either ring or tourney, to start playing at dynamite poker first... the games and limits are small
                        and the regular player pool there (except for the freeroll and private T's) is probably no more than 100 (easy to read players after awhile) it's like playing at school, Sainegy, Garyaus, pokermats and other school players are there.

                        Tony D


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the advice - I will be rather more careful in future (although to be honest, my ups & downs can be explained more easily by overly aggressive play than collusion!).

                          It's a shame about this - especially when the sites claim they are watching out for it. Being UK based it's difficult to get a decent B&M game - casino games are almost always pot-limit which is rather scary for a relative newcomer (especially when it rotates into Omaha & Stud which I'm even more fish-like at).




                          • #14
                            One solution to avoid collusion in on-line games is to play with people who you know and trust.

                            This would take setting up a private table and allow only known players (through use of password) access to the game. It could possibly be a regular game; Thursday night poker perhaps.

                            What do you think?



                            • #15
                              That's a great idea. Why don't some PSO members have a private game once a week. I know that PartyPoker allows for private tables.




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