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  • #16
    I am sure I know who you mean

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    • #17
      sounds like someones jealous dream ..F.M

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DeViLBoY452 View Post
        Just seems like a cheesy way to build a bankroll IMO.
        Maximizing value = good poker.

        Cheesy = playing in a way that doesn't maximize value, and calling out others who maximize value better than you do.

        Is the "style" dreams is using going to win the freeroll tournaments? No, it hinders those chances. Is it going to win real $ tournaments? No, not unless he gets really lucky. Is it going to give him the best chance for a high finish in the monthly league ranking? Yes, if he's doing it optimally.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Da Sens Fan View Post
          The good players adapt to what is profitable There is one consistent top ten player (wont use names) that does this. However when you watch him in real $ tournies he is often LAG style. Does well in both. Don't hate on them cuz they are smart enough to play for the cash.
          Originally posted by TheLangolier View Post
          Maximizing value = good poker.

          Cheesy = playing in a way that doesn't maximize value, and calling out others who maximize value better than you do.

          Is the "style" dreams is using going to win the freeroll tournaments? No, it hinders those chances. Is it going to win real $ tournaments? No, not unless he gets really lucky. Is it going to give him the best chance for a high finish in the monthly league ranking? Yes, if he's doing it optimally.

          +1 to both of these...

          It's called adaptability,being able to deduce what are the +/- EV situations and plays in a given situation. They are not always the same in PSO as they are in cash MTT's or even other freerolls for that matter. Not even close. I wouldn't be so quick to surmise that what one does (or doesn't do) in PSO means that they comport themselves in the same manner in a cash game.

          Stalling,draining grinding the clock to a nub--whatever you want to call it WORKS in PSO at times. Knowing when those times are and taking advantage of them is what gets you paid in this league as much as anything else.

          Those that recognize this didn't make the rules,but they are smart enough to take the rules as they are and use them to their best advantage.
          Last edited by fadmin; Tue Jun 07, 2011, 09:13 AM.

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          • #20
            Donks running the clock down, waiting for other players to lose so u can get a better finish if ur down to 5 BB, making that 30%, 20% when u get to 1750pts, just bloody donkey playing. I agree i play like that here at the skill league note me as a donk and see ya at the tables LOL gl all

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            • #21
              I have lost count of the amount of times i have done some serious grinding - But when you see your position keep rising it makes sense to me. The other alternative is to play fast and get knocked out faster. Now i don't do this in any other game but the PSO league (unless i'm in a cash game close to the bubble short stacked). And i don't do it at the start of a PSO game as the blinds are so small it makes no sense to me to do it. I think simply put it is up to the individual to decide how long they take to play the hand (or not so long). Judging by the closeness of last months league scores - an extra 2 or 3 minutes of grinding/clock watching could make all the difference. I don't mind any style - fast, average, or slow.

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              • #22
                ok then... if everyone else is doin it I guess I'm gonna start doing it... dont call my preflop raises everybody becuz I'm only play AA from here on in....

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                • #23
                  ??

                  Stalling evry hand for many people is actually a hindrance and they dont know it- many times i will see peeps stalling themselves right into a higher blind level ! cause they not watching the torney clock - when they can hardly afford it-- Like any tactic one employs- to increase value- it has to be done right- there are many factors to take into consideration- ---; how many peeps are stalling at ure table, when they are stalling etc-- its not as basic as you might think..............

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                  • #24
                    Well said MS - That is the MAIN thing i watch out for when grinding - the CLOCK - and also how long each hand is taking etc. It is an art form to get the blinds past you just as they are moving up to the next level. And like MS notes there are alot of things to take into consideration apart from just sitting there watching a clock time out.

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                    • #25
                      In my opinion its actually better for the blinds to go up before you if you havent been blinded at that level you have save 1.5 blind by missing that level.

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                      • #26
                        ??

                        Thats my point lisbon- at any given time during the tournament- it may or may not be advantageous to stall-- depending on a wide variety of circumstances- for instance - when the blinds are at say 400/800 and the player on your left is down to 3 or 4 bbs- it may be wise to stall- to push him into the next level 500/1000 to decrease his fold equity -- relative to the stacks on his left- you may be incurring a bigger blind for yourself- yet can be very effective- if your a little short also- and bubble is coming-- the players that drain the clock max. every single hand- well i note them- as imo-- they have no idea what or why they are doing it- !! which is a reflection of they entire game--

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                        • #27
                          Well i have to admit i stall every hand only decision is when to use my time bank, I guess you can note me as a donk then.

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                          • #28
                            ??

                            Originally posted by lisbon roar View Post
                            Well i have to admit i stall every hand only decision is when to use my time bank, I guess you can note me as a donk then.
                            Ask anyone- i never use the word --donk-- i believe its rude-- rather call sum1 an idiot- not you- of course- am just pointing out that simply stalling- without knowing why or how- can actually harm the results of a given player--

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DeViLBoY452 View Post
                              ok then... if everyone else is doin it I guess I'm gonna start doing it... dont call my preflop raises everybody becuz I'm only play AA from here on in....

                              I love these guys they are so easy to play against

                              I don't run the clock, maybe on the bubble if I'm really really short but that's about it. Couple of players I know who play like this didn't finish far above me last month and were below me the previous month. They won no more cash than I did.

                              I think running the clock every hand of a tourney is akin to diving for a penalty or a commiting professional foul. Yes people do it but it's really poor sportsmanship, it's like win at all costs lol

                              This has been brought up many time and the response from those that do it is usually pretty condescending as can be seen in this thread. Most will also tell you they are decent players and that they only do this in the PSO and they have a poker armoury to outplay almost anyone (yet to see evidence of this lol). If they were any good they wouldnt be grinding for 3 - 9 hours a day to win 50 bucks. Whats that like 2c an hour? too small an amount to bother working it out lol.

                              There is a real easy way to beat these guys, just play poker, be aggressive with them as they are terrified of getting negative points. Check the tourney history, if they just got a negative score they will be even more worried about going out and youu can take advantage of that,yo u will only get called/raised if they have a monster hand then u can fold your 23 off.

                              Grinders rely on the fact that they will keep a couple of their blinds which keeps them in for another round or 2 while they wait for AA etc, just don't let that happen. These are many ways to make the game difficult for a grinder and they really don't like it coz they are desperate for those points.

                              A small number are very good poker players but most of the grinders aren't, they're just meganits who have found a tournament structure that suits them.

                              Good luck
                              Last edited by fadmin; Thu Jun 09, 2011, 06:26 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Your post made me smile Ray Nice to see you back!

                                Remind all of us how you fared in "The Ray Varek Challenge" against the grinders

                                TC

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