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Short Stack All-in Not Called

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  • Short Stack All-in Not Called

    To those of you that watched the final table of Friday's 7 pm $200 NLHE event:

    As I arrived at the final table miraculously with never having a decent stack. When it got down to 12 players, I decided to only play premium hands until I got into the money as I was 9th largest stack and the event paid 9.

    After I survived to be in the money, I played a few hands and all of them were all-ins with decent cards for my stack size and position. Yet players that had me out chipped 20:1 never called! I am highly appreciative, but somewhat perplexed. Did anyone else take note of the seemingly passive play at that final table.

    Due to a slow dial-up connection I chose not to listen to Freddie's broadcast.

    Wasn't that a great play by RCMorea when they got rockets when we were heads-up? Congrats on the win :!:

  • #2
    I wasn't in that tourney, but I sure know what you are talking about..
    I have seen it over and over...the big stack folding and letting the blind have the antes/little blind, and the all-in little stacks go unchallenged. ( I notice that seldom happens when I am up against the big stack :mrgreen: )

    When I first started playing tourneys in real casinos. the other players would almost ask for a player's head if they didn't attempt to bust the all-in little stacks. It is OUR MISSION!! HOWEVER....I am not sure where that line in the sand is drawn...cause should I have just TOTAL CRAPOLA, and call just because I am the "big dog", there is the chance of doubling up that all-in player...and sometimes, that comes back to haunt...

    SO it is a real catch-22.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated...The confusion also goes the other way for me....I frequently find myself at the final table, needing to increase my stack or I will be eliminated...and afraid to go all-in BECAUSE of the big stacks...If I try to pick up some blinds/antes, and go all-in with what I might normally NOT play, there is the chance I will be called and even eliminated ...

    Thanks in advance..


    • #3

      I believe wstwst commented on these situtions on the broadcast especially the slow play of the aa, good finish and good start to the month


      • #4
        people often say that u got odds to call a short stack, and yesterday i had also listen to me saying that "it is your duty to call" ???

        well..i found yesterday on round 2 that because i was the biggest stack on the table, i was screwing my stack calling the short stack all in's...situations were i did had A2 sooted to call a 5k to a 40k pot

        useless to say i stop doing that cause my hands were craked by 74o, KK and A9o..stuff like that and after a while it cost me like 40 or 50k to call those hands

        i really believe that, depending on the field, you should wait for better opportunities

        spades 8)


        • #5
          hey joe, if i would have had one of the big stacks, trust me, i would have called with any decent holding. i noticed tthe passive play by the big stacks also, but i was shortstacked myself so i could not do anything until i caught a hand. but i thought it was a great final table. the one thing that made it extremely tough was, all the people there play an awesome game of poker. also, the bets people were bringing in were either all in, or extremely large. it makes it difficult to call with a mediocre holding. when you call, you only have one way to win, and that is to have your hand hold up. but when you are raising, you have 2 ways to win, because the other player can fold. so keep raising, and enjoy building that short stack if they let you. congrats on a good finish, cya at the tables,

          jmuzzey lsogc


          • #6
            Don't care what anyone says:

            If I am chip leader, it's my perogative to call all-ins with less then top notch cards, not my job.

            muck it


            • #7
              not sure if my play is ever called passive but i wont call a raise if the pot is not offering me the correct odds
              if i am not even getting 2-1 odds on an all in raise when i had rag rag then i am folding the rags unless i have 50% of the table chips with more than 6 players left on the table. even then i might just let the others fight it out knowing i will be in a healthly postion heads up.


              • #8
                Don't think about using your big stack to call the short-stacked all-ins in order to eliminate them. Think in terms of pot odds. Call if you have the pot odds to call against the all-ins range of hands. Remember that a short-stack is desperate, often shoving all-in on a prayer, so a typical player could have a wide range of hands.

                Getting 3-1 you should call with any 2 cards. Getting 2-1 and you should call with a very wide range of hands. Not only because of the odds, but also because with these odds against a typical all-in, you could be against anything.

                A common arguament I hear is that I am not calling and doubling them up. Well, the fact is that you double them up when you are getting the odds but still fold. Think about it.


                • #9

                  i said 2-1 before noodles hey i must be learning


                  • #10
                    Joe, I have seen players in the BB fold when all they had to do to call the all in was use 1/20th of their stack.

                    You gotta love these players at your table--if you are the all in.



                    • #11
                      Iron or Noodles,

                      What is the range of hands you would call with if you had ~2:1 odds from the all-in?


                      • #12
                        Another View

                        The only player I'm obliged to put out of the tournament is the second place finisher!!

                        Nevertheless, I've seen frequent weird laydowns by decent stacks all the time. You know - $100 antes, a $4-5,000 pot, an all-in for $1,000 more - giving you 6 to 1 on the call head's up???

                        Gentlemen - Ladies, there are NO two starting cards in Hold'em worse than 6:1!
                        - even AA vs. 72o is maybe 85% (about 5.5:1).
                        - most hands are much lower odds!

                        How can you not call? Fair warning: if I can get 3 or 4:1, head's up with an all-in who can't hurt me further;
                        - when I can call with 7 9os , hit 6 J and get to the river for free!!!!
                        - for me it's an "auto-call" with a decent stack size!

                        That having been said, it's not my job at the table to educate anyone else! If they want to make those laydowns, which only encourages other short stacks to make also try "all-in" bets - that's fine!

                        Just a contrary opinion.


                        • #13
                          joe it all depends on my stack size and stage of tourny but i'll call a all in raise when i have 2-1 odds and no future risk to my chips in the hands with as little as JTo

                          the better the odds i am getting the less i need to call

                          if i am tourny chip leader with a large lead i could call an all in raise offereing me 2-1 with as little as 23o


                          • #14
                            howabout QQ v Q2 etc
                            i think u r over 18-1 dog there but i get your point


                            • #15
                              In reviewing data from Pct of Pots Won it appears that a short stack in the SB, if they cannot make more than a pot sized raise could be getting the correct odds to move all-in with ANY holding in an uncontested pot.

                              On the button the range of hands giving the correct odds for a pot-sized all-in is HUGE in an uncontested pot.



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