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massive 4-bets preflop in tournament play/massive c-bets?

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  • massive 4-bets preflop in tournament play/massive c-bets?

    hi everyone,
    there's this recent phenomenon going on where i will make a 3-bet over someone's standard raise, and then that player will shove all in. or, they will shove the flop or make a bet bigger than the size of the pot that tells me they will inevitably be getting all the money in either on the turn or river. now, i don't so much have a problem deciding what to do (folding, of course). what i don't understand is how do u play against this kind of player when they aren't raising? oftentimes when these players take a flop after having limped in or called a small raise, they will just check and call if u make resonable bets to them. however, it's hard to play those in-between hands against these players, where i don't know if i have the lead or not. i'm always afraid of a random, massive shove, and it becomes easier for them b/c they like to keep their chip stack far higher than the average in the tournament so they can keep making these crazy moves. what's even worse is that some of the other players at the table go bust playing speculative hands, trying to pick off this bully, and then the other players go broke which only increases the bully's stack. i guess my overall question is, do u only play the stone nuts against these players? do u try to mix it up, hoping they missed? do u ever try to bluff them out? any imput would help.

    btw: im talking about tournament play starting at about the 5th blind level, nothing really early. in other words, many of the donks have already busted, and it's late enough that u have a good feel for the big stack's betting habits.

  • #2
    I think you may have already hit the nail on the head. The way forward is to not play speculative hands against them, and pick your spots!

    Think about it. They are limping in with marginal hands. If you also limp in with a marginal hand you are both say 50-50 (a simple assumption yes...). If you wait until you either have a premium hand, or they are not involved in the pot, then you are ahead of them.

    Position is also important. Being the last to act obviously gives you all the info you will need to play against them. If they bet, you fold. If they check and you have a poor hand, you check. You roll with them.

    So, if it's me (and it has been), I'm in the pot when they're not. If I have to play a pot with them I have a premium hand, or I'm in position after the flop, or ideally both.

    Also, a separate line of thinking in one of the articles here at PSO dealing with fixed limit games is that when playing with a maniac only play any suited ace, or any pair for cheap pre-flop. If you hit it then go crazy. If not, check the hand down or quietly fold to a bet. Live to fight another day!

    Hope this helps


    • #3
      The good news is you've noticed this on your own, which means your taking notice of the game.

      If you notice that a certain player is willing to 4BET light the best option is to tighten up your 3BET range, you then have the option to shove on his 4BET or call his allin.

      If he 4BETs and you decide to flat call in fear of him folding to your allin preflop you can wait and shove on his Continuation bet.

      For all Scenarios in Poker all you have to do is play around with the best way to combat your opponents move, it's all player dependent.

      If I've seen you 3BET fold to a 4BET lot's I'm going to 4BET light
      If I've seen you fold to CNT bets alot I'm going to CNT bet you
      If I've never seen you fold to CNT bet I'm only going to CNT bet with my value hands and check the rest



      • #4
        sounds to me like your hand range is just too wide in general if your talking about in between hands? you play tournies right? should be playing very very tight about 5-8% top starting hands should be played only and you shuold always be rasing for value.........

        1. Only 3 bet with ur top 5% hands early in a tourny including AK AQ and (AJ if in positon)
        2. When 4 betting pay attention to bet sizing so that villain still has room to come over the top, also keeping the pot to a decent size for you to c bet fold when flop missed
        3. Never set mine in a 4 bet pot lol
        4. Stay aggressive and dont be scared to pull the trigger even against agro players, that pretty much means put in alot more hours bro

        so yeah good luck with ur grind man, all the best


        • #5
          And obviously playing this tight will all acumulate giving you a perfect table image for latter stages in the tourny where you can learn to loosen up, stealing blinds more often and staying aggressive.....

          Dont ever ever come into a pot just flatting and taking a flop, if ur in a hand make sure ur in a hand because you raised and got called.............


          • #6
            and by the way flatting 4 bets and shoving the flop is not the greatest idea imo, you rep alot less hands when you flat a 4 bet and against good players theyl pick you off and at times call quiet light and bust you

            To counter a 4 bet that u suspect is air or not so strong, simply 5 bet shove.............this way you rep alot more hands and your oponent will now have to tank about hands like AJ, 88,77 ect, you see where im getting at/?

            lol thats so fishy flatting a 4 bet then just shoving a opponents c bet............youl notice regs who 4 bet and c bet all bet sizing is quiet small leaving room for those to potentionally shove over the top and at the same time leaving them looking as value bets leaving you in a state of confusion when u one time shove over the top and they snap u off with kk haha............

            okay enuff from me GL



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