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Mid-Range MTT Stack Play

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  • Mid-Range MTT Stack Play

    Hello everyone once again

    It seems nobody wants to answer any questions of mine. Well I still need to ask them, so I'd hope this provokes more of a response.

    Now, I know that once your stack drops below about 30BB or so, then you need to take on more risk in your play. Lots figure that this means lessen your hand requirements. However, I also know that small pairs and suited connectors lose value. This is due to the implied odds situations that you would use these in becoming more expensive to play. So, to me anyway, this rules that option out. So what now?

    This means taking advantage of opportunities that may arise. Absolutely fine, however, wouldn't the hands you would avoid be the ideal ones for these types of situations?

    Taking 'Poker Theory' at it's word then, this would say to me that you revert to a super-tight hand selection, maybe only playing say 10 starting hands once your stack drops. But, these opportunities still need to be taken advantage of...so what would you play? Am I really being advised to play any two cards at this point? That sounds wrong to me, as any two cards surely have no value compared to a suited connected hand lacking value

    So, how do you marry up playing cards lacking value to having to take more risk? Or is that how you are meant to behave, with risk equalling playing low value cards in advantageous situations?

    Thanks in advance
    Tom

  • #2
    tight play is a 2 edged sword
    spot the tighter players than you and play at them
    go sll in on your big blind while you still have some chips
    its all about feel
    you have to take a shot sooner or later if the cards aint cooperating
    theres a trip report i wrote about this very thing
    "card dead at the borgota"
    read my favortie book
    winning poker tournaments one hand at a time by apestyles, rizen and pearljammer
    it really helps you think about what THE OTHER GUY is THINKING

    Comment


    • #3
      That wasn't the point I was making. It's not a situation where you're card dead thats a problem. It's the time when you have to take on slightly more risk due to a shortening stack (ie under 30BB, or even under 10 M if you like). Small pairs and suited connectors lose their value so they're not cards to be playing.

      So do you tighten up then? No you can't because you have to fight. So you need to play hands that you know have lost their value.

      My question is do you play these hands knowing they're lacking in value long term to get ahead short term. Maths say that playing low value hands is going to lose you more than you win surely?

      Comment


      • #4
        i don't think a 30 bb stack is low enough to take the kind of risks that u r suggesting. if ur gonna see a flop with suited connectors and u have a smallish stack, u better be doing it in position with at the most a single standard raise before u with no callers. u obviously don't have a lot of fire power postflop, so u should only be playing hands while on the button or the cutoff, or occasionally the hijack assuming u r at a full table. i don't know where u got the impression that u should be playing MORE hands just b/c u r down to 20-30 bbs. u have to be more succint with ur betting, as ur chips have to do more for u since u can't afford to lose 10 bbs in a hand like u could when u had in the 50-75 bb range. hope this helps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok a couple of points:

          a) If 30BB isn't the point you take on more risk, then whatever it is for you. What I'm getting at is the point where your stack is dropping and marginal hands lose their value.
          b) I'm not saying you have to play more hands. What I'm saying is that you have to take more risk.

          However, just because you have to take on more risk doesn't mean you will be dealt AA, KK etc. as the cards are random. So if you need to take on more risk, and aren't getting dealt AA, KK etc, yet you know that smaller pairs and suited connectors have lost their value then what cards do retain their value for the purposes you need them for?

          Just because you have to play 76s for example does it become right to do so - the mathematics remain the same in that it is still a marginal or trash hand. You cant magic it valuable because you need to chip up and the odds are against you.

          My question I'm asking is do you still look to play these marginal hands if that is all you are dealt in a period of risk, especially when you know that their value has dropped? If not, then what do you look to play?
          Last edited by tomrankin51; Mon Mar 21, 2011, 08:57 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tomrankin51 View Post
            Ok a couple of points:

            a) If 30BB isn't the point you take on more risk, then whatever it is for you. What I'm getting at is the point where your stack is dropping and marginal hands lose their value.
            b) I'm not saying you have to play more hands. What I'm saying is that you have to take more risk.

            However, just because you have to take on more risk doesn't mean you will be dealt AA, KK etc. as the cards are random. So if you need to take on more risk, and aren't getting dealt AA, KK etc, yet you know that smaller pairs and suited connectors have lost their value then what cards do retain their value for the purposes you need them for?

            Just because you have to play 76s for example does it become right to do so - the mathematics remain the same in that it is still a marginal or trash hand. You cant magic it valuable because you need to chip up and the odds are against you.

            My question I'm asking is do you still look to play these marginal hands if that is all you are dealt in a period of risk, especially when you know that their value has dropped? If not, then what do you look to play?
            you are going to want to see as many cheap flops as you can, and that's why i emphasized postion in my last post. hopefully, ur opponents will be limping or minraising preflop when ur in position to make this possible. the reason i was so adament about stack size is that u can still profitably fold hands like suited connectors or high suited one-gappers like J9s, QTs, etc. when ur stack is at or near 30 bbs. however, u may want to find opportunites where u can try and pick someone's raise off preflop, in other words do a 3-bet semi-bluff. they will usually just call, and then u can see a flop with a hand that plays well after the flop like a suited connecting hand. or, perhaps a really tight opp. comes in for a 2.5x raise 2nd to act or something. u might try a big raise with a small ace. sometimes, these players won't understand stack sizes and will call, but then fold if u shove what looks to be a safe looking flop. all of this comes down to knowing ur opponents' play well and knowing when they will fold. it's all about position and timing, and reading the flop texture in ur favor. if u do try a 3-bet semibluff and it fails and u r forced to fold, now ur in the range of shove or fold mode preflop, especially if the blinds r about to increase. u have to be cognicent of when the blinds are coming to u, and about how many rounds u can survive if u keep folding. also, u want to force smaller stacks to go all in preflop if u have a decent hand, while avoiding the big stacks. however, u probably won't be able to bluff out the small stacks, so try to steal as much as possible from the bigs before u fall into the shove or fold mode, b/c it's never fun when u get down that low since it's mere gambling

            Comment

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