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Question about JDean Play

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  • Question about JDean Play

    I was gonna shove all in when I saw my cards
    Was expecting to see AA/KK/QQ/JJ vs my K8 with the raises n re-raises preflop
    Your comments and feedback is most welcome

    PokerStars Game #58293168215: Tournament #367147138, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2011/02/26 4:40:16 WET [2011/02/25 23:40:16 ET]
    Table '367147138 23' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: Paul_Sox (290 in chips)
    Seat 2: jlcc1960 (2615 in chips)
    Seat 3: 1 largemouth (3590 in chips)
    Seat 4: ricwithaces (1185 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 5: troymn (2260 in chips)
    Seat 6: JDean (4840 in chips)
    Seat 7: Acropolis616 (2545 in chips)
    Seat 8: spike8998 (1300 in chips)
    Seat 9: liltim65 (3385 in chips)
    Acropolis616: posts small blind 75
    spike8998: posts big blind 150
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to spike8998 [8c Kd]
    liltim65: folds
    Paul_Sox: folds
    jlcc1960: calls 150
    1 largemouth: calls 150
    ricwithaces: folds
    troymn: folds
    JDean: raises 750 to 900
    Acropolis616: folds
    spike8998: calls 750
    jlcc1960: raises 1715 to 2615 and is all-in
    1 largemouth: folds
    JDean: calls 1715
    spike8998: calls 400 and is all-in
    *** FLOP *** [Ac Tc 8h]
    *** TURN *** [Ac Tc 8h] [Ad]
    *** RIVER *** [Ac Tc 8h Ad] [7d]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    jlcc1960: shows [Ks Qd] (a pair of Aces)
    JDean: shows [6c 9c] (a straight, Six to Ten)
    JDean collected 2630 from side pot
    spike8998: shows [8c Kd] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
    JDean collected 4125 from main pot
    jlcc1960 finished the tournament in 184th place
    spike8998 finished the tournament in 185th place
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 6755 Main pot 4125. Side pot 2630. | Rake 0
    Board [Ac Tc 8h Ad 7d]
    Seat 1: Paul_Sox folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: jlcc1960 showed [Ks Qd] and lost with a pair of Aces
    Seat 3: 1 largemouth folded before Flop
    Seat 4: ricwithaces folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: troymn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: JDean (button) showed [6c 9c] and won (6755) with a straight, Six to Ten
    Seat 7: Acropolis616 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 8: spike8998 (big blind) showed [8c Kd] and lost with two pair, Aces and Eights
    Seat 9: liltim65 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

    Lets hear him brag about this one
    Last edited by TOO2COO; Sat Feb 26, 2011, 05:56 PM. Reason: Changing Title

  • #2
    Felt sorry for player jlcc1960 in seat 2 having the best hand preflop

    Comment


    • #3
      preflop against a random hand, he's only 2.5% behind.
      Super-Moderator



      6 Time Bracelet Winner


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by spike8998 View Post
        I was gonna shove all in when I saw my cards
        Was expecting to see AA/KK/QQ/JJ vs my K8 with the raises n re-raises preflop
        Your comments and feedback is most welcome

        PokerStars Game #58293168215: Tournament #367147138, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2011/02/26 4:40:16 WET [2011/02/25 23:40:16 ET]
        Table '367147138 23' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
        Seat 1: Paul_Sox (290 in chips)
        Seat 2: jlcc1960 (2615 in chips)
        Seat 3: 1 largemouth (3590 in chips)
        Seat 4: ricwithaces (1185 in chips) is sitting out
        Seat 5: troymn (2260 in chips)
        Seat 6: JDean (4840 in chips)
        Seat 7: Acropolis616 (2545 in chips)
        Seat 8: spike8998 (1300 in chips)
        Seat 9: liltim65 (3385 in chips)
        Acropolis616: posts small blind 75
        spike8998: posts big blind 150
        *** HOLE CARDS ***
        Dealt to spike8998 [8c Kd]
        liltim65: folds
        Paul_Sox: folds
        jlcc1960: calls 150
        1 largemouth: calls 150
        ricwithaces: folds
        troymn: folds
        JDean: raises 750 to 900
        Acropolis616: folds
        spike8998: calls 750
        jlcc1960: raises 1715 to 2615 and is all-in
        1 largemouth: folds
        JDean: calls 1715
        spike8998: calls 400 and is all-in
        *** FLOP *** [Ac Tc 8h]
        *** TURN *** [Ac Tc 8h] [Ad]
        *** RIVER *** [Ac Tc 8h Ad] [7d]
        *** SHOW DOWN ***
        jlcc1960: shows [Ks Qd] (a pair of Aces)
        JDean: shows [6c 9c] (a straight, Six to Ten)
        JDean collected 2630 from side pot
        spike8998: shows [8c Kd] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
        JDean collected 4125 from main pot
        jlcc1960 finished the tournament in 184th place
        spike8998 finished the tournament in 185th place
        *** SUMMARY ***
        Total pot 6755 Main pot 4125. Side pot 2630. | Rake 0
        Board [Ac Tc 8h Ad 7d]
        Seat 1: Paul_Sox folded before Flop (didn't bet)
        Seat 2: jlcc1960 showed [Ks Qd] and lost with a pair of Aces
        Seat 3: 1 largemouth folded before Flop
        Seat 4: ricwithaces folded before Flop (didn't bet)
        Seat 5: troymn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
        Seat 6: JDean (button) showed [6c 9c] and won (6755) with a straight, Six to Ten
        Seat 7: Acropolis616 (small blind) folded before Flop
        Seat 8: spike8998 (big blind) showed [8c Kd] and lost with two pair, Aces and Eights
        Seat 9: liltim65 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

        Lets hear him brag about this one
        Looks more like you are a bad loser. :-)

        I raised on the button vs 2 limpers with a 2 gapped connected and suited hand. That raise put the pot at 1275. You then call, rather than put your chips n from the BB. This moved the pot up to 2025.

        That other guy then shoved, laying me better than 2 to 1.

        You had "just" K8o, and you came along as well...

        ...and since this wasn't the first time at the table you'd put a good portion of your stack at risk, do you REALLY think I am going to give you credit for a big hand?

        :-)

        Fact is, I had only a bit over half my chips at risk, I got "caught" by that shover, but since it is an event where JUST 6 people get paid, I gotta accumulate chips...even if that means taking very risky plays. If I am getitng the right price to play those kinds of hands, why do you think I'd fold 'em after raising?

        The REAL question is...

        What made you think YOUR K8o was "good" after the other guy shoved?

        BTW...

        Per an equity calc, I had about 36% chance to win, vs about 47% for the KQ. You?

        16%!

        Great decision whiner!

        Last edited by JDean; Sat Feb 26, 2011, 07:39 AM.
        Double Bracelet Winner

        Comment


        • #5
          PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

          http://[img]http://www.flopturnriver....gif[/img]

          UTG+1 (t290)
          jlc1960 (MP1) (t2615)
          MP2 (t3590)
          MP3 (t1185)
          CO (t2260)
          villian (Button) (t4840)
          SB (t2545)
          Hero (BB) (t1300)
          UTG (t3385)

          Hero's M: 5.78

          Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, K
          2 folds, jlc1960 calls t150, MP2 calls t150, 2 folds, villian bets t900, 1 fold, Hero calls t750, jlc1960 raises to t2615 (All-In), 1 fold, villian calls t1715, Hero calls t400 (All-In)

          Flop: (t6755) A, 10, 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

          Turn: (t6755) A (3 players, 2 all-in)

          River: (t6755) 7 (3 players, 2 all-in)

          Total pot: t6755

          Results:
          villian had 6, 9 (straight, ten high).
          Hero had 8, K (two pair, Aces and eights).
          jlc1960 had K, Q (one pair, Aces).
          Outcome: villian won t6755

          Comment


          • #6
            Let me see if I have the numbers right:

            Your stake = $1,300
            Your cards = King - eight off suit (Group 7 or 8 hand)
            Your pre flop wager = $1,300 (all-in)


            How many ways is this wrong? You push a very poor hand all-in against two other players. Your best possible hand is catching kings, but with two wagering heavier, and four players having action, the probabilities are that one, or more kings are already accounted for in their hands. You need a 4-card flush on the board, or a 4-card straight. Again, with so many bidders, the possibility of the king being out there is reasonable.

            There is no way the old hedgehog will sugar coat this hand. You were a (explative deleted) fool for making such a (censored) play. If this is your usual style, I predict you will become the most popular player at the cash tables. In fact, I hope to run into at least eight more who play like this next month.

            Seriously, I'm wondering what was your logic when you moved all-in pre flop with this hand? Can you explain the reasoning you went through to arrive at that decision? If action at the table prior to this hand hinted at maniac play, I might be tempted to think you had an outside chance with second highest card. But even you should know the creed of all shove monkeys, be sure you have an ace.

            Now you noticed I didn't go further than pre flop. In all honesty, your hand ended there. Whatever happened after the all-in is strictly in the hands of the RNG. And the odds never favored you.



            My luck is that you did this as a jest and the old hedgehog is taking this too seriously. If so, then I'm the fool. And I can enjoy a laugh at my expense.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am happy with the way I played
              Yes I lost chips
              I was only trying to accrue some more just like everyone else does
              But would never risk what you did on 69 suited
              I would have insta-folded preflop and lived to fight another hand
              Maybe thats why I was only playing aces/faces/tens

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by spike8998 View Post
                I am happy with the way I played
                Yes I lost chips
                I was only trying to accrue some more just like everyone else does
                But would never risk what you did on 69 suited
                I would have insta-folded preflop and lived to fight another hand
                Maybe thats why I was only playing aces/faces/tens
                The reason 69s is wroth a button raise is BECAUSE folks, like you said, tend not to think it will be raised.

                I will ask you Spike...

                Let's say the KQo only FLATS me, and you come along too. Do you think I'm FOLDING on that 2 club flop anyway? Especially when I had a gut shot straight draw as well?

                If he folds, and you shove, I'm calling anyway, with odds.

                If he flats, and you flat, I'm not losing anything more without an 8 or 9 out draw, or 2 pair+.

                Sometimes you gotta put some "pep in your step" in top heavy pay structure events.

                BTW...

                At that point, my VPIP, outside the BB, was running only around 18% (12 of 69 flops seen outside the BB). It wasn;t exactly like I was being a "maniac".
                Double Bracelet Winner

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cairn no this is not my usual play
                  I am usually far more tighter and a lot more aggressive
                  I was playing in a PSO league game at the same time and looked at my stats
                  when I was out
                  played 18 out of 84 hands which is about 22% of total hands played
                  of which I won 14 out of 18 which is about 75/76% winners
                  In 2 hours + play
                  I am really happy with my game
                  As for being a sore loser JDean , no , life's to short , I'm an Evertonian after all
                  we are use to losing , plus its only a game lol
                  Last edited by spike8998; Sat Feb 26, 2011, 07:58 AM. Reason: missed a sentence out

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cairn Destop View Post
                    Let me see if I have the numbers right:

                    Your stake = $1,300
                    Your cards = King - eight off suit (Group 7 or 8 hand)
                    Your pre flop wager = $1,300 (all-in)


                    How many ways is this wrong? You push a very poor hand all-in against two other players. Your best possible hand is catching kings, but with two wagering heavier, and four players having action, the probabilities are that one, or more kings are already accounted for in their hands. You need a 4-card flush on the board, or a 4-card straight. Again, with so many bidders, the possibility of the king being out there is reasonable.

                    There is no way the old hedgehog will sugar coat this hand. You were a (explative deleted) fool for making such a (censored) play. If this is your usual style, I predict you will become the most popular player at the cash tables. In fact, I hope to run into at least eight more who play like this next month.

                    Seriously, I'm wondering what was your logic when you moved all-in pre flop with this hand? Can you explain the reasoning you went through to arrive at that decision? If action at the table prior to this hand hinted at maniac play, I might be tempted to think you had an outside chance with second highest card. But even you should know the creed of all shove monkeys, be sure you have an ace.

                    Now you noticed I didn't go further than pre flop. In all honesty, your hand ended there. Whatever happened after the all-in is strictly in the hands of the RNG. And the odds never favored you.



                    My luck is that you did this as a jest and the old hedgehog is taking this too seriously. If so, then I'm the fool. And I can enjoy a laugh at my expense.
                    Yes I wasn't taking it seriously , was playing for fun after being awake now for 39 hrs straight
                    :
                    Last edited by spike8998; Sat Feb 26, 2011, 08:02 AM. Reason: left out the smilee's

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by spike8998 View Post
                      Cairn no this is not my usual play
                      I am usually far more tighter and a lot more aggressive
                      I was playing in a PSO league game at the same time and looked at my stats
                      when I was out
                      played 18 out of 84 hands which is about 22% of total hands played
                      of which I won 14 out of 18 which is about 75/76% winners
                      In 2 hours + play
                      I am really happy with my game
                      As for being a sore loser JDean , no , life's to short , I'm an Evertonian after all
                      we are use to losing , plus its only a game lol
                      Well good.

                      I'm glad you were only fussed enough to essentially calling me a "donk" in the forum, despite the fact I had pretty deent reasons for doing as I did...



                      Fact is, a top heavy pay out structure, that early in the event, means I need a LOT of chips to keep going. did I "expect" to have the action I got? No.

                      Did that action "scare" me? Again, No.

                      I knew I'd either win a big pot, or soldier on with about 40% of my prior stack.

                      *shrug*
                      Double Bracelet Winner

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JDean View Post
                        Well good.

                        I'm glad you were only fussed enough to essentially calling me a "donk" in the forum, despite the fact I had pretty deent reasons for doing as I did...



                        Fact is, a top heavy pay out structure, that early in the event, means I need a LOT of chips to keep going. did I "expect" to have the action I got? No.

                        Did that action "scare" me? Again, No.

                        I knew I'd either win a big pot, or soldier on with about 40% of my prior stack.

                        *shrug*

                        I built a bridge , I got over it

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here are my stats for the game


                          During current Hold'em session you were dealt 38 hands and saw flop:
                          - 3 out of 5 times while in big blind (60%)
                          - 1 out of 4 times while in small blind (25%)
                          - 3 out of 29 times in other positions (10%)
                          - a total of 7 out of 38 (18%)
                          Pots won at showdown - 1 of 3 (33%)
                          Pots won without showdown - 5

                          Was I a maniac

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            These are for the the league game


                            During current Hold'em session you were dealt 84 hands and saw flop:
                            - 4 out of 10 times while in big blind (40%)
                            - 3 out of 9 times while in small blind (33%)
                            - 11 out of 65 times in other positions (16%)
                            - a total of 18 out of 84 (21%)
                            Pots won at showdown - 5 of 10 (50%)
                            Pots won without showdown - 9


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by spike8998 View Post
                              I am happy with the way I played
                              This is your problem right here spike. It would be advisable to reconsider your contentment with your own decisions, rather than focus energy on JDeans play.
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