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how 2 beat the millionaires???

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  • how 2 beat the millionaires???

    hi all,
    today starts a week long poker festival at my local casino which will see buy ins increase from the normal 50 to 200 and in the big one saturday 750.also there will be 110-140 runners in most tourneys.obviously the money involved attracts many people who you dont get to play with from week to week,including two main catagories the professionals and the millionaires.
    i have got absolutely no problem at all sitting at a table with professional poker players,if i dont play with people who are better than me my game will never improve.
    the problem i have is the millionaires.the tournament structure is £200 buy in (+£20 reg)
    £200 rebuys for 90 mins
    £200 add on
    now my bankroll will allow me to play 2 tournaments with 1 rebuy and 1 add on or 1 tournament with 5 rebuys,if i am stuck on a table of "money men" i wont last an hour,ill give you an example
    last year simular tourney i was at a table with 2 guys who were very rich and loved to show it,every other hand they were going all in and if they lost just shouting for more chips.
    20 mins into the game i am on big blind with kk(both red)
    both money men raise/reraise
    i call
    flop comes k 7 9 spades
    i check
    rich guy 1 raises pot
    rich guy 2 re raises pot
    i have to fold,if i call i am all in and any 2 spades beat me +possible str8
    rich guy 1 reraises all in
    rich guy 2 calls
    they show their hands,i am expecting A high flush v k high flush
    rich guy 1 shows 7 9
    rich guy 2 shows T J
    turn and river =blank blank
    2 pairs wins
    rich guy 2 shouts "chips"
    i kick the table
    the annoying thing is both these players make it close to the money and are actually very good players,but because they can afford to they blast the pot and take people off of winning hands,which on one hand i suppose is a good stratergy but not good news for me as i only earn around£200 a week so each time i go all in with the best hand and am rivered by a one outer it cost me a weeks wages to retake my seat.
    it is impossible to only pay to see the flop with premium hands and then only see the turn if u have the nuts so any help,suggestions would be appreciated.
    many thanks


    outdrawn
    london
    uk

  • #2
    Re: how 2 beat the millionaires???

    Originally posted by outdrawn
    hi all,
    today starts a week long poker festival at my local casino which will see buy ins increase from the normal 50 to 200 and in the big one saturday 750.also there will be 110-140 runners in most tourneys.obviously the money involved attracts many people who you dont get to play with from week to week,including two main catagories the professionals and the millionaires.
    i have got absolutely no problem at all sitting at a table with professional poker players,if i dont play with people who are better than me my game will never improve.
    the problem i have is the millionaires.the tournament structure is £200 buy in (+£20 reg)
    £200 rebuys for 90 mins
    £200 add on
    now my bankroll will allow me to play 2 tournaments with 1 rebuy and 1 add on or 1 tournament with 5 rebuys,if i am stuck on a table of "money men" i wont last an hour,ill give you an example
    last year simular tourney i was at a table with 2 guys who were very rich and loved to show it,every other hand they were going all in and if they lost just shouting for more chips.
    20 mins into the game i am on big blind with kk(both red)
    both money men raise/reraise
    i call
    flop comes k 7 9 spades
    i check
    rich guy 1 raises pot
    rich guy 2 re raises pot
    i have to fold,if i call i am all in and any 2 spades beat me +possible
    If you are folding top set through fear of being outdrawn, then there are only 2 things you can do. You either need to get rid of this fear and do what the situation calls for with no fear of going broke. Or you shouldn't be playing in such a high buy-in event untill you have a bigger bankroll where that fear does not exist. You're just dead money with your current state of mind.

    Either change your state with your current bankroll, or don't play until a bigger bankroll changes the state for you.

    Comment


    • #3
      if your going to play the bingo poker for big money
      then i would play the one you can afford the more rebuys
      keep it tight untill towards the end of rebuy period when you can risk 1 or 2 rebuys with the aim of rebuying(if you havent built up chips before hand)
      my first ever trip to play live the guy on my left had 18 rebuys
      for a full report read my S***ing brincks thread in the trip report forum

      personally i would prefer to get a crowd of us brits together 30+ and see if a casino will host a freezeout NLHE event for us as most of the members are split between midlands and london anywhere around those locations would be good unless 20+ of you want to fly up here.

      Comment


      • #4
        noodles,
        i totally understand where u are coming from and u are right of course i have no place in a tourney that i cant really afford but im sure u agree the buzz is much better when u r playing in the big event atmosphere.
        as for folding top set obviously it was a tough decision and one i hated to make but faced with the flop and the large bet surely i have to assume i am behind(i am asking not telling,lol)
        is it really a good bet to go all in knowing that u probably need the board to pair to win.

        thanks 4 your time
        outdrawn
        london
        uk

        p.s. how do u get that no fear

        lol

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by outdrawn
          p.s. how do u get that no fear
          Win the lottery and become a millionaire yourself. Seriously.

          If you're scared of losing your chips, you can never win. I would never play an event like this on short money, because I'm basically giving it away.

          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: how 2 beat the millionaires???

            Originally posted by outdrawn
            20 mins into the game i am on big blind with kk(both red)
            both money men raise/reraise
            i call
            Problem 1 - why call and worry about the flop? Reraise the max here and hopefully get it all-in. In any event, top set has fair chances against a made flush on the flop, and given what you know about these players there's every chance they're betting nut flush draw, 2 pair etc.

            Originally posted by outdrawn
            but not good news for me as i only earn around£200 a week so each time i go all in with the best hand and am rivered by a one outer it cost me a weeks wages to retake my seat.
            Problem 2 - others have said it and it's the truth. Better (and much more fun) to play 10x£20 tournaments than 1x£200 where you're scared of the money. Playing for a weeks' wages can't be right.

            g00t luck

            Glenn

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by outdrawn
              noodles,
              i totally understand where u are coming from and u are right of course i have no place in a tourney that i cant really afford but im sure u agree the buzz is much better when u r playing in the big event atmosphere.
              Sure. If that's the case, then change your state of mind when playing the tournaments. Make the correct ev play without fear of busting. If you can't afford a rebuy, don't take one.

              as for folding top set obviously it was a tough decision and one i hated to make but faced with the flop and the large bet surely i have to assume i am behind(i am asking not telling,lol)
              is it really a good bet to go all in knowing that u probably need the board to pair to win.
              Well, actually, I didn't realise there was 3 spades already out. I thought it was just a draw. Having said that, from how you describe the two players, you will be ahead the majority of the time against these 2 players. Definitely the correct decision in terms of ev in this situation, that you need to take if you are gonna have a big payday in this tourney. They may even be drawing dead, who knows. They are not exactly rocks. Besides, I don't know the depth of money, but you should probably have re-raised the max preflop.

              p.s. how do u get that no fear
              Well, I'm not even sure it is a good idea to get rid of that fear, as you may get into serious debt lol. So you need to be careful about the state you replace it with. But if you are interested into how to change states, I am sure one of the www.essential-skills.com products will sort you out. The 3 dimensional mind should help I would imagine. You may even be able to learn this without buying anything. Just join their yahoo group and see if you can learn it there. It is a really simple and quick process once you master it. The essential skills have their foundations in NLP, but in the context of everyday practical use, with all the pointless crap removed. Pure Gold.

              Comment


              • #8
                Noodles, that was an interesting read.....The 3 D Mind.

                I work in sales, and much of this stuff is taught to my staff.

                It is not unlike 'The Spin Principle'

                i.e. rather than avoiding the problem, go right into it, break it down, and re build it in a different way, adding or taking away parts as necessary.

                Great stuff and yes, it cost me nothing

                not really relevant but.........

                "A sale is made on every appointment, either you sell them the product, or they sell you on a reason they can't have it"

                This is worth remembering when facing any problem, if you think you can't solve it, remember the statement again, maybe you are having this battle with yourself i.e. you have sold yourself on a reason you can't do it etc.


                ok one more.....the 7 Ps


                Proper Planning & Preparation Prevents P iss Poor Performance.


                Good I'm rambling now, going to bed

                CLAY

                Comment


                • #9
                  I too have played tournaments with rebuys that I have chosen a limit for myself or even not to rebuy. (I have made the money in them too.) If you are making the decision to play such a tournament you have to survive with enough chips until the rebuy period is over. Of course Enough is ALL the chips you can get.

                  As Rosita said you were in the best position to get their money all-in and you had the "best of it" going in. You have to be willing to gamble, remember you are already gambling since you are not willing to rebuy. You can expect to most likely go out early, or if your lucky you will have more than Enough chips to survive until the rebuy period is over. Usually in these type of tournaments there is one final add-on at the end of the rebuy period. So you have players who are below the rebuy amount make 1-rebuy and 1-add-on. So if the tourney started you with $1000 in chips most players will have $2000+ in chips. This is your goal, to accumulate $2000 in chips or more, usually you will need more. After the rebuy period, if you have less than $2k the blinds at this level will not allow you to wait for your cards, or you will be out in one hand if you miss.
                  You are a clock watcher until the rebuy period is over, you will have to make plays or gamble. If you do not have the necessary chips as you near the end of the rebuy period you are going to have to act. By gambling, this could mean trying to get as much money in the pot or allowing extra players in the hand to get more money rather than raising them out immediately. This is risky, but taking down one or two multiway pots is all you need. Since you will have the millionaires to build a pot, hopefully you can count on them when you have a hand and they don't. YOU, don't want to end the Rebuy period without accumulating the necessary chips, or you're pretty much doomed. Use the clock, other players at your table may not want to do a rebuy and add-on, they may be shooting for just the add-on amt. So as the button moves during the final few minutes prior to ending the rebuy period you may be able to pick up some blinds by being aggressive. Try to figure out who these players might be if possible. If you don't have the chips on the last two times the button goes around, you will have to play hands to attempt to get the necessary chips. Remember your attitude is either get the goal amount of chips or your going out early
                  trying to get them.

                  In a tourney I played last year, I had about 1.2 x the initial chips. I had no opportunities during the final two times the button moved around, or I lost some chips, not sure. Anyway I was in the BB, and sitting to the right of a well known pro, I expected the pro to attempt to steal my blinds. I was determined to play my hand to accumulate the necessary chips if I could. I re-raised the pro when he raised my blinds. I put him on a King something, the flop had a king, he bet I called. The turn had an ace, I check, he bets, I raise, he re-raised, I re-raised, he threw away. There was another player in the hand until the raising started, so I more than doubled up. Yes I got lucky, but my outlook was, I was dead if I didn't get those chips, so I had to play to win.

                  If you intent to continue to play in events that you are short on bankroll for consider this.
                  In you example above rather than play in the weekly event, only play in the event when you have won the entry fee in ring games that week or that day. Even if you don't have rebuy money, you will play more aggressive because you are playing with money you won and not from your pay check.

                  As the others point out, you might be better off playing in tourneys you can afford to compete in the given money structure. But sometimes its fun to take a long shot. I have traveled to tourneys and played in the lesser buy-in events, and either won a satellite or enough in the side action to buy into one of the more expensive events, without rebuy money. You bet I'm going to take a shot. Now thanks to PSO, I believe I have a decent shot with a little luck.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OUTDRAWN

                    I play against these types every week in my local casinos in Newcastle, don't make the mistake of thinking that they are maniacs or millionaires, they are just trying to flood the table with chips thereby giving themselves a better chance once the re-buy period ends. Watch them change gears after the re-buys are over. It's correct what the others have said above, be patient and wait till you have the best of it then get your chips in. It might only happen once or twice in two hours, you might even lose, but two good pots will see you through to the proper tourney.
                    good luck.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey Clay, did you see the article on poker? How cool would that be

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        lol noodles

                        maybe one day I'll find it

                        I hear that some english dude has some 'poker' type writings under 'advanced poker forum'

                        Maybe I should start there?

                        It just seems like such a scary place for someone like me!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Clay Knight
                          lol noodles

                          maybe one day I'll find it

                          I hear that some english dude has some 'poker' type writings under 'advanced poker forum'

                          Maybe I should start there?

                          It just seems like such a scary place for someone like me!
                          Geez, you're paranoid :lol: But now that you mention it

                          I meant, did you see the article about poker at the essential skills site. www.essential-skills.com/PokerArticle.html

                          How cool would it be to do what he did. Understand now? Geez

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok, I'll be nice now

                            I've read it, thankyou, yes it would be very cool.
                            It makes me miss the fact I don't play live.
                            My kingdom for a few poker players in Plymouth!

                            Thanks for the link Noodles

                            CLAY

                            Comment

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