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how wrong is to call...or to

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  • how wrong is to call...or to

    how wrong is to call...or to fold here.....


    friday night game

    200 buy in - no limit holdem

    107 players started - 70 players stil in

    average stack - 15.000 - 1h 10m of game

    just arrived to the table and had never played with this new player


    Starting hand #12087989

    mick16 starts with $13,975
    HAMMER1 starts with $11,500
    pokerpagekev starts with $10,200
    "spades" starts with $14,000
    ASTRO starts with $24,975
    demonknees starts with $7,625
    delta234 starts with $22,475
    MikeFox starts with $12,850
    BillyTheKidd starts with $5,875
    Reck starts with $24,825

    ASTRO has the dealer button

    >>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<

    "spades" dealt down Ah Jc
    mick16 posts the ante $50
    HAMMER1 posts the ante $50
    pokerpagekev posts the ante $50
    "spades" posts the ante $50
    ASTRO posts the ante $50
    demonknees posts the ante $50
    delta234 posts the ante $50
    MikeFox posts the ante $50
    BillyTheKidd posts the ante $50
    Reck posts the ante $50
    demonknees posts the small blind $200
    delta234 posts the big blind $400
    MikeFox folds
    BillyTheKidd folds
    Reck folds

    mick16 raises $400 to $800

    HAMMER1 folds
    pokerpagekev folds

    "spades" calls $800

    ASTRO folds

    demonknees raises $6,775 to $7,575 and is all-in

    delta234 folds
    mick16 folds

    "spades" called time
    "spades" called time
    "spades" called time
    "spades" called time
    "spades" called time


    my question here is what to do ??

    do i call here or should i fold ?? :?:

    outcome of this hand soon after your comments !!!!

    spades : 8)

  • #2
    Fold like it's your job.

    Comment


    • #3
      why would you want to call?

      Comment


      • #4
        ahh I remember I had AKs here; did I really overbet the pot like this? A little overzealous I guess. As I recall I had gotten of to a decent start in the tourney and went on a bad run (cards and play) and felt like I needed to take this pot to get me back to the starting amount (my post flop play was getting uncharacteristically tepid). Going all in here would not be my normal move (allthough I see players here going all in with AK all the time, maybe because this hand is the hardest to get away from if you miss the flop).

        If its any consolation I went out in the tourney by calling an AK all in bet, and my hand was significantly worse then AJ. DOn't know what I was thinking as I knew I was beat.

        You'll get me next time I suspect.

        DK

        Comment


        • #5
          and the answer is...

          i screw up my stack...

          "spades" calls $6,775
          demonknees shows cards Ad Kd
          "spades" shows cards Jc Ah
          >>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ 7s Kh 6s ]
          >>>DEALING TURN<<< [ 2s ]
          >>>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 8h ]
          demonknees wins $16,850
          demonknees won with a pair of kings

          wonder if that was a really bad call,

          Comment


          • #6
            the all in raise was correct as if you had made a pot raise you would not have been able to make a pot sized raise on flop



            calling with the AJ was a bad play spades as there was no hand he could raise with you were ahead of the 6.7 k would have been nice sitting in your stack rather than calling with the worst of it hoping to get lucky and knock out a player the money at that point is shallow but still deep enough to fold weak aces.

            Comment


            • #7
              It appears from the play I've watched recently (and I've been paying more attention lately, as my game shows..lol) people REALLY overvalue AQ, AJ, AT, for that matter any Ace when the money is still too deep to be playing those hands for raises. Granted they ALL go up in value when the money gets shallow, although I still believe there is much to much making and calling big raises with Ax around here. The sad part is, most times these people end up getting rewarded with these Ace/rag hands by making two pair...A3, A4, A5 etc. and winning a big pot, reinforcing the bad play it started with. I think they should of course get the pot..after all they won it, but perhaps PSO could program in some sort of electrical shock that would jolt them just a lil to let them know that they got lucky and the play was not the optimim one to make...lol.

              8O

              'Goddess

              Comment


              • #8
                Spades,

                A-J is a doubtful hand in many spots, and I'd much rather raise with the hand than stand a raise with it; what if you call, it's heads-up, and your opponent bets into you when the flop comes with an ace or jack? You really don't know where you are in the hand, and that's a potentially expensive place to be.

                Alan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Spades,

                  A-J is a doubtful hand in many spots, and I'd much rather raise with the hand than stand a raise with it; what if you call, it's heads-up, and your opponent bets into you when the flop comes with an ace or jack? You really don't know where you are in the hand, and that's a potentially expensive place to be.

                  Alan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    yup...i think it was a bad call...

                    i dont have any problem in folding A whatever..if i see i dont get the odds or that im beat...not the first time i fold AK, AQ or any other preflop...that is not the hard part for me

                    in this hand however i felt i had to call (i didnt knew nothing about the player !)

                    thnx for your help guys

                    spades 8)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by demonknees
                      ahh I remember I had AKs here; did I really overbet the pot like this? A little overzealous I guess. As I recall I had gotten of to a decent start in the tourney and went on a bad run (cards and play) and felt like I needed to take this pot to get me back to the starting amount (my post flop play was getting uncharacteristically tepid). Going all in here would not be my normal move (allthough I see players here going all in with AK all the time, maybe because this hand is the hardest to get away from if you miss the flop).

                      If its any consolation I went out in the tourney by calling an AK all in bet, and my hand was significantly worse then AJ. DOn't know what I was thinking as I knew I was beat.

                      You'll get me next time I suspect.
                      At only 600 to call, on those stack sizes with AK, you have options. Either re-raising or just calling. I think, with a combination of your good position relative to raiser on the flop and the 600 price to call, I would generally have flat called and then gone for the check-raise all-in on the flop should I hit a pair. If you only had about 5k, then all-in preflop would have been best.

                      As for the AJo. calling the original raise is usually not a good idea. As for whether to call the all-in, it depends on whether the player that moved-in is just as likely to have worse aces in their range of hands. If it is heads, I am buried, tails opponent is buried, then call. Otherwise fold. Usually on those stack sizes, a typical player would not move-in on worse aces, so it is generally a fold.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would generally have flat called and then gone for the check-raise all-in on the flop should I hit a pair.
                        Noodles, I like this strategy. I have been using this approach frequently with AK (sometimes with AQ) when I get to act first and there is no need to limit the field. In this case I was slightly "on tilt", when I get like this I tend to get weak-tight. I felt like I had been semi-bluffed off some pots a ocuple of times and I didn't want to let that hapen again. My only problem with the check-raise is that 2 or 3 handed the flop often gets checked through. In this case I would be reluctant to check the flop with the potential straight and flush draws. What do you think of leading with a pot size bet here (or actually an all-in bet with my short stack). I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a potential free card here.

                        DM

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by demonknees
                          My only problem with the check-raise is that 2 or 3 handed the flop often gets checked through. In this case I would be reluctant to check the flop with the potential straight and flush draws. What do you think of leading with a pot size bet here (or actually an all-in bet with my short stack). I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a potential free card here.

                          DM
                          Well, in this situation, the reason I would call preflop and go for the check-raise all-in on flop is related to stack sizes and my position relative to the preflop raiser. Usually, the preflop raiser will have a bet at the flop after you check. I am just talking generally. If they are likely to check it round, or only make the minimum bet, then I probably play more committally preflop. If it was an unraised pot preflop then usually bet out and take it from there, as you cannot expect a bet after you check.

                          Talking generally, the reason your position is so good is because, should you catch the pair, you can check and let the preflop raiser bet, catching the other player in the middle. If it is checked round after you, then it isn't so bad as this means you will usually win pot on next round anyway unless someone was slowplaying a monster. If you miss the flop, and you think others missed it too, then you can bet out, putting the preflop raiser under pressure by putting them in the middle. If you miss and check, and it is checked behind you, then the pot is yours to steal on the turn if it is a blank and neither player are calling stations or slowplaying, as you are the player most likely to have checked a good hand on flop, (because of your position relative to raiser).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I FOLDED A/Qs on that hand.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Noodles
                              Talking generally, the reason your position is so good is because, should you catch the pair, you can check and let the preflop raiser bet, catching the other player in the middle. If it is checked round after you, then it isn't so bad as this means you will usually win pot on next round anyway unless someone was slowplaying a monster. If you miss the flop, and you think others missed it too, then you can bet out, putting the preflop raiser under pressure by putting them in the middle. If you miss and check, and it is checked behind you, then the pot is yours to steal on the turn if it is a blank and neither player are calling stations or slowplaying, as you are the player most likely to have checked a good hand on flop, (because of your position relative to raiser).

                              What a great forum we have here!!!

                              Thanks, Den

                              Comment

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