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Post flop and icm

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  • Post flop and icm

    Dunno if this is an odd question, But ive been thinking about playing tournaments more lately and i dunno why i never thought about this before but if a chip gained is less than a chip lost when you think about calling or going all in pre flop. Then doesn't the same rule apply when jamming or calling the river?

    With out doing any math if 1 chip isn't worth 1 gained then if you had a close 2 to 1 call on the river couldn't that sway your decision to be a very clear fold?

  • #2
    @mike2198 Yes, you're absolutely correct. When we're in spots where ICM comes into play, if we're on a very close river decision, ICM can turn it into an easy fold instead of a very marginal call. John (JWK24)
    Super-Moderator



    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      Thanks John i would have thought that something like this would have been on one of the many videos ive watched over the years but ive never seen or heard of it.

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      • #4
        Post-flop ICM spots don't come up all that often, so they are rarely at the forefront of your mind, but when they do come up, the situation is often horrible. I've had several spots in satties this year where I've gotten myself into a river spot where I've only got 5bb left*, but I have to fold an overpair because the runout was so bad for my hand. (And I stupidly couldn't bring myself to make the fold). It's so much more fun when you're the big stack, as you can apply tons of post-flop pressure.


        * These spots tend to arise when I start with <15bb and I minraise to induce a shove... but someone just CALLs. Playing KK on Axx or J97tt is surprisingly complicated when the SPR is about 2:1, you're near the bubble... and villain doesn't give you a good opportunity to jam.
        Bracelet Winner

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        • #5
          some really helpful info

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          • #6
            With 15bb's remaining and KK in your hand.... would min raising to induce a bluff be considered "FPS"????

            :P

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            • #7
              Originally posted by HoserMonkey View Post
              With 15bb's remaining and KK in your hand.... would min raising to induce a bluff be considered "FPS"???? :P
              @HoserMonkey Well.. for it being FPS... does the name of the day end in 'Y' There can be instances if we have a maniac at the table where it's ok (mainly middle of mtt's and not in sattys, etc) but not in the overwhelming majority of spots. John (JWK24)
              Super-Moderator



              6 Time Bracelet Winner


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              • #8
                Originally posted by HoserMonkey View Post
                With 15bb's remaining and KK in your hand.... would min raising to induce a bluff be considered "FPS"????
                I don't know any good players that play KK differently. Everyone should have some hands they minraise at that stack depth. With QQ+ (and some much weaker hands), minraising is without doubt more profitable than open-jamming. You're not just inducing bluffs. You're inducing hands to jam that might well have folded to an open shove (e.g. A3o, 44, T9s).
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
                  I don't know any good players that play KK differently. Everyone should have some hands they minraise at that stack depth. With QQ+ (and some much weaker hands), minraising is without doubt more profitable than open-jamming. You're not just inducing bluffs. You're inducing hands to jam that might well have folded to an open shove (e.g. A3o, 44, T9s).
                  Makes a lot of sense, ive been watching someone that suggested the same recently. I haven't started the grind yet but i remember when i use to shove or fold my range, every time i had AA i got snap folds.The thing to remember though is once you stop jamming your big pairs you can't shove as wide a range pre that some software might suggest otherwise.

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