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cant make it to the final table

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  • cant make it to the final table

    i am playing 180 max MTT regularly, my early finish percentage is 2.1%,early middle is 0%, middle finish is 70.8%, middle late finish is 22.9%, late finish is 4.2%. i cant make it to the final table very often. how can i improve my game?

  • #2
    Look for Furo's guide to the 180s on the two plus two forum. Other than that, it's hard to say without seeing your VPIP/PFR stats. If you post these here, I'm sure someone like Dave or John will give you some tips. You should provide more info for others to be able to help you.

    Try to step down to the 45s and 18s and see if things improve as there's more variance with 180s, which is normal.

    Generally, try to play tight in the beginning, be more aggressive on the bubble, open up when 6-handed, and tighten up again when the table fills up again. Reviewing final tables with the PokerTracker ICM calculator for good spots to shove/fold is good too (must close PS software when reviewing).


    • #3
      gamble more often when you reach the 27 to 10 players left so you will have deeper stack to get you to Final Table


      • #4
        my VVIP is 22.4, PFR is 8.9. i tried everything. in the middle time, when i had KK or QQ, and i put my opponent in Ax hand, always ACE hit in the river and when the flop was like J 3 6 (rainbow) and i loose my whole stack. it happens everytime.


        • #5
          With this VPIP and PFR, I see one problem immediately.. too much limping. With a VPIP of 22, I'd want my PFR to be in the 17-18 range. By limping too much, the opps are getting the correct odds to play against your better hands.

          John (JWK24)

          6 Time Bracelet Winner


          • #6
            yup, i always limp in with 10 9(s), j 10(s), k j(s), K 10 (s), QJ(s), QJ(o). but only in late position.


            • #7
              what will be my correct play?


              • #8
                Originally posted by saiyeed View Post
                what will be my correct play?
                Standard raise, which will depend on the blind level (somewhere between 2.2BB+1BB for each limper to 3BB+1BB for each limper).

                If you're the first one into a pot, either raise or fold.

                John (JWK24)

                6 Time Bracelet Winner


                • #9
                  thank you very much john(JWK24).


                  • #10
                    Always great advice from John. Actually, if I were you, I would search for all his posts and read them all - tons of good, rational and free advice from him to newbies whose conclusions you reach as well after playing a lot looking for answers.

                    A couple of things I want to add seeing your replies: ah well, ICM for the final can't help you if you can't get there, eh?

                    Now, a lot of it all is psychological on top of limping too much: if you start looking at reaching the FT as a big monster, it will affect your play. Try not to stress out about it but instead make it into a game (e.g. you reach Level 2 if you manage 1 FT in 4 games, etc...) and also focus on doing the correct play (both pre-flop and post-flop, even if that means folding pre and raising pre, etc...) in the proper situation against players for whom you should have developed a feel or read or for whom your HUD should be giving you stats mid-game or at the bubble.

                    At one time, the monster for me used to be the bubble... Always frustrating to last to the bubble and just bubble out, and being Bubble Boy is no fun at all. Once I focused on improving and making correct plays before that, it stopped being a 'monster', and my ITM rate improved. Then the 'monster' became the FT, but in due time, it stopped being a monster as well and I made more FTs since.

                    At the bubble, you can avoid some plays which you would normally play if say, two others are going All In, even if you have fantastic cards but one elimination means you're ITM.

                    Well, there's a similar thing: it's the FT bubble. People usually play tighter, so you can either open a little wider, but watch out for spots where a couple of more are All In (and that means you'd need to open the other table and watch it too) when there's 10, 11 left, and sit tight.

                    Not that I think I'm a great player either (haha!), but these are some things that came to mind when reading you and which helped me. Hope you do have a HUD... If not, you should get one, if only to track your own play and plug leaks after a good sample of hands.


                    • #11
                      Don't know if you're playing the regular MTTs or the Turbos. If the latter, you will need some knowledge of push-fold in several spots as the blinds rise quicker.


                      • #12
                        i am playing TURBO MTT. where can i get the knowledge of push fold in several spots?


                        • #13

                          This seems to be my story
                          You need to improve general knowledge of tourney play and you have chosen to play the 180 which are basically MTT's and are very high on variance, even SNG pros will tell you that a 20 BI downswing is nothing, so Bankroll management you need to take.
                          I recommend to follow Andre Coimbra's challange back in 2013. He had some issues with 180's in the first day of his challenge. Follow on his blogs and vlogs on the challange (just google 100k challange acoimbra).
                          Then, start reading, hard. Without saying I became an expert my same question : 'where is the final table ?!?' got answered in time.
                          You will need to understand : structure, player pool size, tourney stages, adaptations on opponents, position, optimal raising / stealing / re-stealing ranges by position / tourney stage (early/middle/late/final table) and finally ICM.
                          If you follow his challenge you will be presented with thought process, books, oppinions ...

                          Attached Files


                          • #14
                            Great resource, including the videos Andre put on Youtube where he plays, or coaches somebody else, or is coached by Andrew Brokos.

                            I do need to get into those again too!


                            • #15
                              These can help for push/fold mode:

                              * Link removed as per TOS *

                              You'll also need to try something like ICMizer or SitnGo Wizard. There's a free ICM Trainer/light @ Poker which is cool too.

                              You'll need to get acquainted with the concept of 'M' from Harrington. Check Lee Nelson's Kill Phil for a specifically only Push-Fold strategy. There's a lot to learn in this strat, if you understand the principles, e.g. how ranges are affected by position, stack size and whether the pot is raised or not. It will help you be more comfortable when short-stacked, which happens often in Turbos.

                              I'd try to move back down to the 0.25 45-man and 90-man regular-speed if I were you: they're great practice and not turbos.
                              Last edited by HokyPokyToo; Tue Aug 19, 2014, 02:00 AM.



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