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Tough River Call !!

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  • Tough River Call !!

    It's MTOPS Main Event $15 with multiple Day 1's, 10k starting stack, 5 mins blind level I know I made a very loose UTG open , but stacks were deep and I like to play lot of pots with inidonk: post-flop. I am not sure what he has, he is bluffing ? Can I call his river bet Where did I go wrong PS: He was on SB so he can have , but the way he played his hand (esp. the turn min raise) I can't ever put him on any straight combos, either he has Full house with or something that I beat , like maybe another with bad kicker then mine. Full Tilt Poker Game #34290949399: MTOPS Main Event (Day 1c) (266270419), Table 49 - NL Hold'em - 40/80 - 02:59:02 IST - 2014/06/04 [17:29:02 ET - 2014/06/03] Seat 1: ilmeniux (12,604) Seat 2: miniraise (10,701) Seat 3: JLPejic (11,175) Seat 4: Nice hAnd ok (9,535) Seat 5: PitchOff (9,940) Seat 6: Igrim (9,450) Seat 7: adikumar2010 (7,912) Seat 8: TonnyRivers (10,125) Seat 9: timorm1 (6,655) PitchOff posts the small blind of 40 Igrim posts the big blind of 80 The button is in seat #4 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to adikumar2010 [ ] adikumar2010 raises to 200 TonnyRivers folds timorm1 folds ilmeniux folds miniraise folds JLPejic folds Nice hAnd ok folds PitchOff calls 160 Igrim folds *** FLOP *** [ ] (Total Pot: 480, 2 Players) PitchOff checks adikumar2010 bets 320 PitchOff calls 320 *** TURN *** [ ] [] (Total Pot: 1,120, 2 Players) PitchOff checks adikumar2010 bets 656 PitchOff raises to 1,360 adikumar2010 calls 704 *** RIVER *** [ ] [] (Total Pot: 3,840, 2 Players) PitchOff bets 2,480 adikumar2010 STATS :
    Last edited by adikumar2010; Wed Jun 04, 2014, 01:06 AM.
    Bracelet Winner

  • #2
    Hi adi,

    This is a dynamic flop that interacts well with his preflop calling range, and there are lots of turn cards that are gross, so I wouldn't mind checking back the flop here, so we have some top pair combos in our turn/river calling range should he seize the lead... and keep the pot under control, + get away from this hand easily enough if it gets ugly, + get 2 streets of value from weak bluff catchers like 55 and A7 when he thinks our flop check means we missed.

    As played, calling the turn c/r is fine, and certainly I would fold to the river. We are only beating bluffs, and almost no hands in his value range save for QT. Don't agree with your assessment he can have a worse T here, he just can't (except for QT). He isn't likely to be defending preflop with T2-T6, and all other Tx is beating us or tied (not QT)... he can very easily have AT too btw.

    So basically although our hand seems strong at face value, it's really fairly weak in relative value to his range here... it's only a bluff catcher. This is not a common bluff line (c/c, c/r, bomb river), so imo I would make a (what should be relatively easy but feels like not easy) fold.
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    • #3
      I have 4 questions :

      1) But you only told me to charge draws and not let people see free cards on a wet drawy board incase our opponent has OESD or FD, JWK spanked me for giving them good odds to draw. And you are recommending a check back and total free card if he has 67, 78, 89 and let him make his straight.

      2) Also what do you think he can have here, you are you down with my assement that the way he played he absolutely can't have a "straight" esp. his check-raise on turn says he doesnt have straight unless he defended with 68o. Coz I don't see him check-raising turn with gutshot straight like 67. Maybe 78 or 89 which is OESD, but he won't min check-raise with OESD also.

      3) I am not saying he is bluffing but why can't he be over-valuing his trips with bad kicker like TQ or some T6s T5s which doesn't make boat.

      4) My reading abilities tell me he has 9T or JT like a boat or something that I can beat (no straight for him). What do you put him on?

      PS: In poker it doesn't matter what I have, we just need to know what our opponent range is.
      Last edited by adikumar2010; Wed Jun 04, 2014, 02:08 PM.
      Bracelet Winner


      • #4
        1. I never only told you that. We are playing against a range, not a draw exclusively, and there are a lot of factors to consider besides "charging draws". Like the fact that our hand isn't strong enough to play for 3 streets of value, or for stacks. And most run outs will be neutral or bad for our hand, not good. I feel like there is more upside to keeping the pot small and the villains weaker, more hopeless hands in, than to "charging" the parts of his range that have a draw. And allowing a betting round to go away with no money going in leaves us with 2 which is more strength appropriate for us on neutral and good run outs, and avoids us getting into weird big pot pickles on bad run outs.

        2. No, I don't agree with your assessment. He can have 88 or A8 and be making a move to represent trip T's. He can have T8. He can have 68s or J8s if he's a loose defender.

        3. I was pretty clear, imo QT is the only hand in his "value range" that we are beating, so I do think he can have that. And I don't think he's defending with T6- preflop. Even if we had a read that he defends as wide as T5s, then he would have all the full house combos too (T7+) and more straight combos, so it really doesn't make a good excuse to call him.

        4. A better hand than ours, and QT.
        Last edited by TheLangolier; Wed Jun 04, 2014, 06:03 PM.
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