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I think I played this fine, yes or no will do !

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  • I think I played this fine, yes or no will do !

    It's Hot $0.55 and I stacked off 62BB. Maybe it's perfect to do with this hand anyday. I think I played it fine, maybe I could have made preflop raise 2.5x. But that will not stop people calling with there suited cards no matter you min raise, 3x, 4x. If they get married to there cards they are calling any raise. So my strategy is to keep the pot small with those maniacs. This way I can min raise with my weak holdings also and get away with a steal from LP. Other then that I think half pot is fine if they have flush draws, 1/2 pot is good price to charge them not too much and not too less, maybe 2/3 pot is slightly better on a flush draw board but I think 1/2 will do coz they will not always have a flush draw. I think I was like 300 places close to bubble but who cares, it's like mid-stages. I don't want you to think that I am whining about a bad beat, I just want to know if the bet sizing were fine or like I could use a bit more preflop and on the flop but I don't like 3x pre and 3/4 pot on flop to kill action cpz everyone is shallow and ITM iis closing in. Thanks. STATS :
    Bracelet Winner



  • #2
    Hi adikumar2010! If you want a one word answer, I'd go with facepalm! Preflop, I need to make a standard raise, which at this blind level is to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper or 750 chips. With 2 opps in the pot, I cannot bet less than 2/3 pot on the flop. Doing so gives the opps the right odds to be in the pot and if I give them the correct odds, it's my own fault that I lose. When the opps get the correct odds, they WILL win on average and I deserve to lose (and will lose chips to them on average each and every single time). When the opps get the odds, it's 100% on me if I lose the hand. Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24) P.S. This is a great example of how fancy play syndrome will make the hand blow up in my face.
    Super-Moderator



    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      Don't worry JWK they will call u no matter u min raise, 2.5x or 3x as it's suited. I think you don't know the rule of donkament, you get married to suited cards no matter what action happened before you, even if there has been 3-bet, you can cold-call 3-bet with suited cards. Result won't change here. This muppet was ready to gamble 62BB with flush draw what do you expect from him to laydown A5s to my 3x raise preflop.

      He is min-raising with flush draw, he didn't choose to draw at the price I gave him ROFL.

      It's always my fault that I price them in.
      Bracelet Winner


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      • #4
        Originally posted by adikumar2010 View Post
        It's always my fault that I price them in.

        If you do so, then yes, it is.

        Remember Dave's training session from yesterday (a review of this tourney)... he said that we want to always charge the opps when we have a made hand and to NOT bet small and price them in.

        John (JWK24)
        Super-Moderator



        6 Time Bracelet Winner


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        • #5
          Originally posted by adikumar2010 View Post
          I was thinking of 2/3 pot will be better, but stacks are so shallow that 1/2 pot will apply the same pressure when I am c-betting with air.
          less than 2/3 always gives them the odds if there are 2 opps in the pot. Betting less with c-bets IS a tell that a smarter player will look for, make notes on, and use against the player at a later point in time. It's VERY exploitable.

          John (JWK24)
          Super-Moderator



          6 Time Bracelet Winner


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          • #6
            Yes I now remember, we want to charge them premium to draw.

            I was thinking of 2/3 pot will be better, but stacks are so shallow that 1/2 pot will apply the same pressure when I am c-betting with air that's why I don't change my c-bet size from 1/2 pot, maybe thats why I didn't want to deviate from my normal sizing in this hand as I was 1/2 potting with every range on the flop.
            Bracelet Winner


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            • #7
              I have a tendency to play small ball poker, and not bloat every pot. These days I see people doing 1/3 in late stage as standard c-bet and 1/2 in mid stage as standard c-bet in MTTs. I am sure you have also seen this, unlike cash game where c-bet is 2/3 or 75%.
              Bracelet Winner


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              • #8
                That's where you're mistaken on this one.. 1/2 does NOT put pressure on them, it gives them the correct odds. A 1200 bet into a stack of 20k... does not pressure them.

                2/3 prices them out and puts pressure on them... anything less, does not.

                John (JWK24)

                P.S. if someone wants to c-bet less than 1/2 pot... then they'll need all the luck in the world against a smart opp, as the smart opp will call with any realistic draw and suck out on them due to being priced in.
                Super-Moderator



                6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                • #9
                  I forgot, Yes that 1/3 pot and 1/2 is usually more workable at higher buyin events also. Here at micro-stakes if they have a big stack even if you pot it they will continue to chase there draws. So why not do that if they don't mind paying premium money.
                  Bracelet Winner


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by adikumar2010 View Post
                    I forgot, Yes that 1/3 pot and 1/2 is usually more workable at higher buyin events also. Here at micro-stakes if they have a big stack even if you pot it they will continue to chase there draws. So why not do that if they don't mind paying premium money.
                    I hope someone tries to 1/3 pot me next month in the WSOP tourney I'm playing... I'll take every chip from them that they want to throw at me.

                    John (JWK24)
                    Super-Moderator



                    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                    • #11
                      GL for WSOP, I hope we can see you on the live coverage.

                      But my sizing is smaller then normal is coz so that when I bluff I can get away for cheap, and when I have made hand if I deviate from my normal bet size they will pickup on it, that I have a hand this time.

                      I develop this bad habit to bluff of opponents and get them of there 2nd pair or Top pair weaker kicker, without me spewing more chips in the process. If I encounter a sticky player then I don't need to bluff him off, coz he will not notice what bet size I am making.

                      So I guess I will have to make it 2/3 pot when bluffing also with air, coz if they call I will most probably have to give up on the turn or I will have to double barrel which means leaking more chips in bluffing process.

                      Do you know a good way to balance it, like I can get away without spewing off much chips while trying to bluff and at the same time when I have hand they don't sniff that.
                      Bracelet Winner


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                      • #12
                        Bet the exact same whether you have it or not. As soon as you make multiple bet sizes and have to show one... the opp will know exactly what your hand is.

                        John (JWK24)
                        Super-Moderator



                        6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by adikumar2010 View Post
                          Don't worry JWK they will call u no matter u min raise, 2.5x or 3x as it's suited.
                          Why not be exploitative and make it 3x with AA preflop then?

                          Originally posted by adikumar2010 View Post
                          Yes I now remember, we want to charge them premium to draw.

                          I was thinking of 2/3 pot will be better, but stacks are so shallow that 1/2 pot will apply the same pressure when I am c-betting with air that's why I don't change my c-bet size from 1/2 pot, maybe thats why I didn't want to deviate from my normal sizing in this hand as I was 1/2 potting with every range on the flop.
                          A mistake that a lot of MTT players make is to CBet too small as John has already stated very well.

                          We're not that shallow here, we're playing 60BB effective with major3101, so you need to give an incorrect price for villain to make his draw.

                          Originally posted by adikumar2010 View Post

                          But my sizing is smaller then normal is coz so that when I bluff I can get away for cheap.
                          When stacks start getting much shallower, say if you're playing a pot with someone who has an effective stack of 15-25BB, I definitely like to make my CBet sizing much smaller than 2/3 pot as you're still putting a lot of pressure on the opponent's stack.

                          Because of this, CBets of 1/3 pot and even less have a lot of fold equity. We can still win their stack a lot of the time with our value hands and it makes our bluffs cheaper so we're not crippled when they raise us and we have to fold.

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                          • #14
                            By the way I don't think anyone actually addressed this point yet, but in the hand, as played I think the flop is a fold. We already have a big stack and against this action we're often up against one hand that crushes us.

                            In fact our best case scenario is the one that you found yourself in and even then you're only 49% favourite to win the hand outright. Most of the time you'll be crushed.

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                            • #15
                              So you mean Andy I should have folded after the 3-bet shove?
                              Bracelet Winner


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