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All-in with AK preflop

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  • All-in with AK preflop

    Two players went all-in preflop. I had AK unsuited and went all-in too. Turns out the others had pockets pairs (66 and 99). I lost. Anything wrong with the way I played?
    Last edited by DanCarrero; Mon Jan 06, 2014, 02:26 PM.

  • #2
    I guess it is read dependent to a certain extent but against that action, at this stage of the tournament, I am folding. We are flipping against at least one, most of the time, and could be crushed though that would just be unlucky.

    We have 30bb and time on our hands. There will be better spots in all likelyhood.

    I'm not a big tournament player though.

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    • #3
      Why get involved if this isn't a hyper-turbo? You are most likely to be up against a pair and a big Ace or 2 pairs. You are behind in both. Against 2 pairs the smaller takes more of your equity than of the other pair's, In the big Ace and pair scenario at least one of your outs is taken.

      Classic case of a very good cards in a very bad situation.

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      • #4
        If we get a triple up that will propel us in the rest of the tournament.

        Worth the risk IMO.

        Comment


        • #5
          A popular idea. However a triple up does not triple our probability of winning.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
            A popular idea. However a triple up does not triple our probability of winning.
            This early in an MTT ICM plays little factor (ie our tournament life doesn't mean as much since our time invested is so low) so if it's +EV for chips then it's +EV overall.

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            • #7
              Against two, assigned random hands, which I imagine is all we can give them credit for at this stage, our hand is less than 50% to win.

              If we give one of them a pair, and the other random, we have ~40%.

              On average, we lose more often than we win, and we dont need to do that with 30bb. If we give ourselves a skill edge then there will be better spots.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bhoylegend View Post
                Against two, assigned random hands, which I imagine is all we can give them credit for at this stage, our hand is less than 50% to win.

                If we give one of them a pair, and the other random, we have ~40%.
                I think you have your answer right here.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by birdayy View Post
                  I think you have your answer right here.
                  Yeah, I expect to lose more than I win. And at this stage I do not need to take that risk.
                  Last edited by bhoylegend; Mon Jan 06, 2014, 06:17 PM.

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                  • #10
                    half agree with all this just want to point one thing out if you get aa when 4 random hands are all in you have less then 50% chance to win the hand but its till +ev so dont look how much of the time youll win and if he has 40% to win this hand its a call he is just investing 32% of the pot so if you win that 40% of the time its one big edge.
                    Triple Bracelet Winner

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by adohole View Post
                      half agree with all this just want to point one thing out if you get aa when 4 random hands are all in you have less then 50% chance to win the hand but its till +ev so dont look how much of the time youll win and if he has 40% to win this hand its a call he is just investing 32% of the pot so if you win that 40% of the time its one big edge.
                      AA is a very real difference though.

                      You know for a fact you have the nuts at the time the money goes in and that the other hands will have to suck out on you. With AK, and two AI ahead of us, and 30bb, I don't think we need to gamble.

                      I rarely play tournaments though so I should probably just leave it with that. One of the HA might have a look and let us know what they think.

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                      • #12
                        yeah aa is a totaly difrent story just wanted to make something clear. but i dont know if its on avarage vs there range its a mistake of about 300 chips to fold there (thats just if he is 40% here wouldnt be suprised if it was closer) but if you on avarage get 20% of you stack extra thats pretty big
                        Triple Bracelet Winner

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                        • #13
                          Hi Dan! With AK in the BB, I get two shoves in front of me. For me, there are two keys with this hand. First, it's very early in the tourney, so I don't need to be taking unnecessary risks with unmade hands. Secondly, is that it's a multi-way pot and AK plays much better in a heads-up pot. If the opps are even shoving a 20% range, then I'm going to lose more than I win here as my hand only has 44% equity. If either of these opps are tighter, then I'm now losing about 2 out of every 3 times here. While it would be nice to have a larger stack, risking my tourney life where I most likely will lose 2 in every 3 times and be out.. for getting a chip stack that will not guarantee cashing in it, is not worth the risk. If I had a made hand (QQ+), then I'd call, but I'm mucking AK here. Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24) P.S. Another thing to highly consider here. With two opps in this, one will most likely have a pair, the other will most likely counterfeit my outs (they should have Ax or Kx).
                          Super-Moderator



                          6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                          • #14
                            If either of these opps are tighter (say a 10% range and the one calling the shove should be tighter than the initial opp that shoves), this is only a 2% EV spot (90 chips) and risking my tourney life to only gain 6% of my stack on average where I lose 2 in 3.... IMO, isn't worth the risk.

                            John (JWK24)
                            Super-Moderator



                            6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                            • #15
                              Personally I would take this spot at this blind level.
                              Our main aim is to survive as long as possible with a medium size stack(20-50bb). The blinds in the next level(50/100) will force us into end game push fold decisions, which I think we want to avoid if possible.
                              Taking a flip to triple up is always +ev and can set us up for the rest of the tourney with a decent stack to work with.

                              with no stats I think
                              utg range is 77+ AJ+ , I think we can rule out KK AA due to the open shove.
                              button range is stronger TT+ AK+.(tag range?)
                              My decision could be to fold if both players were tight/nitty, the looser they are the more I find shoving better.
                              Bracelet Winner

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