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Hot $3.30: Preflop play w/ AA

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  • Hot $3.30: Preflop play w/ AA

    Just wondering what arguments there are for/against 3b isolating vs flatting the UTG shove. Player1 ( 1678 ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 14 Player2 ( 5064 ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 18, 3B: 17, AF: 0.0, Hands: 11 Player3 ( 7648 ) - VPIP: 20, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.3, Hands: 15 Hero ( 14475 ) Player5 ( 2805 ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 33, 3B: 50, AF: 0.0, Hands: 3 Player6 ( 13915 ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 27, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 15 Player7 ( 2480 ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 7, 3B: 13, AF: 0.0, Hands: 14 Player8 ( 8190 ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 7 Player9 ( 15880 ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 14

  • #2
    I personally like the flat call - I don't mind seeing a flop or getting it all in 3 or 4 way.

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    • #3
      For calling, I think balancing it for the times you call with a not so great hand like AQ/medium pair.
      And you have a monster equity hand with a lot of BBs, which would probably made reraising look a lot stronger than calling (to the average player at least).
      For 3betting, I guess not letting villains, who have the same number or more BB's than you, hit 2pair+ postflop and get paid a considerable amount of chips from you (if not all your stack).
      You can go either way in my opinion, but since it's a rather tightish table, probably 3betting would make more sense.
      Last edited by GamblingProp; Thu Dec 05, 2013, 07:44 PM.

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      • #4
        Flatting in this case is just terrible
        You are giving the opportunity for others to join in and giving your AA less odd's of winning. You're suppose to isolate a player.

        This should of been an all-in

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        • #5
          Because the inital shove is so small realtive to our stack I would actually want action from the other stacks behind us so I would flat call also.

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          • #6
            flatting/isolating with small raise, both fine, just dont shove this, it will look way too strong and villians behind might not come along as wide as flatting/iso raise. Personally i would have minraise it or something like that, so if someone even does call there is sidepot to play for.

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            • #7
              Hello,
              I may call buttons raise or shove with qq+ from sb, but never slow play monster from MP.

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              • #8
                I hate slowplay without the nuts post flop and even then I don't really like it.

                If we call and invite others in then what do we want to do. Let them hit something? How do we know post flop whether that something is ahead of us or behind? We've left them with a wider range, potentially multiple villains. I'd just raise. It's the Hot $3.30 so we will often get action anyway.

                EDIT: Should add that I haven't watched the hand yet.
                Last edited by bhoylegend; Fri Dec 06, 2013, 09:09 AM.

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                • #9
                  I'm flatting almost always given this situation and stats. When you 3-bet vs UTG, you make it very easy for players behind to get away from hands like JJ/TT. By flatting, you invite a squeezer to shove hands like JJ/AQ etc.

                  It's a closer decision with KK/QQ. With those, I'd usually raise to isolate, though flatting kings might be fine too.

                  If we pick up overcalls (which would be pretty weird, given stack sizes) then you're committed to getting it in on 100% of flops, and I think you're maximising your profit by seeing a flop multiway.
                  Bracelet Winner

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                  • #10
                    This is quite a polarising hand!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
                      I'm flatting almost always given this situation and stats. When you 3-bet vs UTG, you make it very easy for players behind to get away from hands like JJ/TT. By flatting, you invite a squeezer to shove hands like JJ/AQ etc.

                      It's a closer decision with KK/QQ. With those, I'd usually raise to isolate, though flatting kings might be fine too.

                      If we pick up overcalls (which would be pretty weird, given stack sizes) then you're committed to getting it in on 100% of flops, and I think you're maximising your profit by seeing a flop multiway.
                      I agree with this summary. I know our pre-flop equity in the hand drops if we get all-in 3 or 4-way, but we are still considerably above 50% in both cases and the amount we win when we do end up winning surely makes up for our drop in pre-flop equity.

                      Originally posted by Rob Sharona View Post
                      This is quite a polarising hand!
                      This hand is certainly polarising in the opinion it generates!

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                      • #12
                        Tried loading your hand into SNG Wizard birdayy, but nothing popped out - but the replayer had pics of the villains' hole cards so I accidentally saw what everybody had Will try not to spill the beans

                        It would have been interesting to get feedback from SNG Wizard on optimal ranges and stuff - assuming birdayy had reraised or shoved to isolate rather than call, do villain 5 and villain 7 have an overcall range in light of the fact that this is a turbo, and they're short?


                        EDIT: My thoughts aren't very organized this morning - guess I was wondering how much short stacks' ranges change depending on whether birdayy called/raised/shoved.

                        Or like ... in a spot like this, are we maybe supposed to be thinking about who'd be the type to do a squeeze, and with what sort of range, so that we know if we want them to or not?

                        Maybe the fundamental debate that's arising with this hand is that strategy question of like ... say an equally big stack has a lesser pocket pair or AK - is it worth trying to add them to a pot at risk of them hitting a 2/3-outer for the chance of doubling up? And maybe there's no 'right' or 'wrong' answer? I don't know

                        Ahhh ... hopefully my random thoughts make some sense ...
                        Last edited by TrustySam; Fri Dec 06, 2013, 02:41 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting discussion so far.

                          Still not convinced which is the best play!

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                          • #14
                            I think I would 2.5x raise it pre in the hope that it would look like I'm trying to isolate with some like Ax or a pair like 1010 or JJ. My plan would be to make it look as pathetic so that one person tries to squeeze, but not too many others!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by birdayy View Post
                              Interesting discussion so far.

                              Still not convinced which is the best play!
                              Not to add to anything that's been said so far, but wouldn't this be a perfect/textbook situation to flat to induce 3/4 bets? Everybody is shoving light to your hole cards and you have the stacks to play for it multiway. M ranges of villains might help but I'd play it exactly as played.

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