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was this a terrible call?

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  • was this a terrible call?

    Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
    not sure if I am doing this correctly. anyway opened A6o from the Hj then got into a bit of a tricky spot. I hope the hand loads
    Tournament of Champions Winner 2014

    4 Time Bracelet Winner



  • #2
    yep....2 over cards and a flush draw on board....hiccup

    thinking maybe a shove after the flop may have gotten him to fold...

    but always refer to my rule #1

    cheers
    Last edited by effsea; Thu Aug 01, 2013, 06:44 AM.
    Poker Rule #1....Never listen to me...hiccup

    7 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      my reads and thoughts

      sorry for messing up this post.

      I opened A6o from the hj got one caller, my reads were that this was a solid tag player. when he called the flop c bet I put him on two overs or a flush draw. I figured he would 3 bet all his big pairs pre flop and he really couldn't have a 4 in his hand unless it was pocket fours. on the river I thought a really long time, I even typed in chat that it was either a ten an overpair (which I doubted because he didn't three bet) a ten or a bluff. He is never betting a seven here. I would really like to know what you all think of this spot.
      Last edited by FireMedic815; Thu Aug 01, 2013, 06:49 AM.
      Tournament of Champions Winner 2014

      4 Time Bracelet Winner


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      • #4
        Hi FireMedic

        Looks like you have about 19bb total it's a bit marginal to open A6o even short handed. I'm folding pre call me a nit.
        Last edited by ForrestFive; Thu Aug 01, 2013, 06:56 AM.

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        • #5
          hey fire.....a read is only a guess....nothing more,

          At times a players read is good, and at times there not.

          It's gamble when ever the player goes on the read only vs playing the board.

          Once again....please refer to rule #1

          cheers
          Poker Rule #1....Never listen to me...hiccup

          7 Time Bracelet Winner


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          • #6
            oh btw......he's not a solid tag player...lol...hiccup

            he's nothing but a drunk.....but hell of a nice guy

            For those that don't know.....we were in the same game.

            cheers all
            Poker Rule #1....Never listen to me...hiccup

            7 Time Bracelet Winner


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            • #7
              The villain is a Solid Drunk,tyvm.

              John it looks like you did it right to me.
              Your thought process was all good but I think
              another bet on the turn may have told you where
              you stood in the hand.
              11 Time Bracelet Winner


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              • #8
                Hey Medic! Before looking at the call, I think there is another very key point with this hand and that is with the bet sizes and not telling a consistent story throughout the hand. Preflop with A6, if I'm going to play it, I need to make a standard raise, which for this blind level is to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper. By min-raising, all I'm doing is to give the opp the correct odds to call. If they're going to call a raise of mine, I want them to have a -EV call, not a +EV call. I flop 2 pair, which is probably good here, so I want to make a value bet. Here is where the bet sizes don't tell a consistent story. I want to make a standard bet here and for having 1 opp in the hand, a standard value is 1/2 pot (795). With the standard bets, it tells a consistent story of strength. By making a very small raise preflop (says my hand is weak), then an overbet on the flop (says my hand is strong).. it's not consistent and doesn't make sense. If I were the opp, I'd definitely be floating this line with 2 overcards. The opp now checks and I like the check behind here. My hand does have showdown value, but may not be the best hand, so I want to try to get to showdown. The river is another overcard and completes a flush and straight. Now it's the opp's turn to make an abnormal bet. Once again, the standard bet size for a HU situation is 1/2 pot, but they bet 62% of the pot. For a call to be good here, I need to be ahead 27.7% of the time and if the opp is a solid TAG, they're not going to bluff the river at a higher % than this... so I'm mucking. If they had made a smaller bet, I'd be more inclined to call, as I'd only nee to be right a smaller % of the time, but not with a large river bet. The overwhelming majority of the time, they should have a T, 7, 4, straight or flush here. If the opp was a maniac, then I'd be more likely to call, as their bluff % would be higher, but not from a TAG. Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24)
                Super-Moderator



                6 Time Bracelet Winner


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                • #9
                  Thanks for your candor John,

                  I play mostly cash games these days and I think my c bet size was 60% of the pot, does the half pot bet make that much of a difference in tourneys? By the way depending on my opponent I usually bet a bit bigger than 60% in the micro cash games when I think I am ahead. also I would have opened 3x in a cash game, maybe I lowered it a little too much with antes in the pot and should have opened 2.2 or 2.5 the latter being what you recommended.

                  Yes your input helps mostly the preflop open size, but everything you said gives me something to think about.

                  I guess you know now that it was Jordan I was playing that pot with lol. I wasn't very concerned about the straight or the backdoor flush. It was a very tricky spot for me as I said my read was pretty much on when I typed in chat over pair ten or bluff, and I didn't give much credit to the over pair because he didn't 3 bet. I really wasn't sure if he would bluff a busted heart draw.

                  My goal there was to take it down pre flop as my table image was pretty tight as well.

                  Thank you all for your input! and eff next time I play in the tank I am going to drink a few more primer beers before it starts
                  Tournament of Champions Winner 2014

                  4 Time Bracelet Winner


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                  • #10
                    Check turn fold river was probably the correct play, I just wasn't sure if you would bluff a busted flush draw. After this review I think the two biggest mistakes I made in the hand was not raising bigger pre and calling river. I think it was a very interesting spot. I also think you played the hand perfectly. The upside is that people who view this thread won't be so quick to bluff me
                    Tournament of Champions Winner 2014

                    4 Time Bracelet Winner


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                    • #11
                      Hey Medic!

                      Here's a blog that I did on the bet sizes.

                      If you're consistent with 60%, that's ok, but especially in a tourney when the stacks are shorter, we don't have to bet that much to still have a +EV play.. so 50% vs 1 opp helps with chip preservation, so I can also last longer in the tourney, along with trying to accumulate chips.

                      Min-raises preflop, especially once antes kick in, really won't do much, other than bloat the pot and invite others into the hand.

                      If I'm in the BB and someone min-raises, I'm priced in for basically everything... even the effsea special!

                      EX: use this hand. If I'm the opp, I have to call 300 into 1590 (18.9%). If I'm up against someone playing say 15% of hands.. even the ol' 27o has 26.6% equity.. so I'm priced in. If they're playing only top 10% hands, my 27 would have 24.9% equity.. plenty to call and see the flop.

                      Now, if I use 2.5BB for my raise, now they can't call unless they think they have 35% equity.

                      John (JWK24)
                      Super-Moderator



                      6 Time Bracelet Winner


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