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Tough spot for me. Please help!

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  • Tough spot for me. Please help!

    Hi everyone. I'm new to these forums and this is my first post. I've been playing poker for 8 years, but this is the first of those years where I've actually started to take it seriously, learn about the game and above all, pay attention! I am essentially, a beginner to intermediate. I usually play 6 max STTs at a $3.50 buy in. I have made around $90 in 100 games. I struggle to make money in MTTs, and this is why I'm posting. My reason for posting comes from a hand in a 6 max MTT, at a $3.30 buy in.

    Now, my inexperience may have cost me in this hand, or not. That's what I'm here to find out. The decision I made in the hand has been eating me up inside, and I was hoping one of you guys with a much better grasp of the game than me, could help me out.

    My problem in this hand is with user "rangeris332". I saw three of his showdowns and all three of those hands were AJ, suited or not. And co-incidentally, he opened from UTG or UTG+1 with AJ. My problem was that he was raising slightly more than a tight player, and he won without showdown on all of those occasions. He was aggressive for sure.

    Here is the hand:

    PokerStars Hand #99517953204: Tournament #740439363, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (25/50) - 2013/06/03 19:23:05 WET [2013/06/03 14:23:05 ET]
    Table '740439363 94' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: Xandefla1982 (4630 in chips)
    Seat 2: Ed3819 (2340 in chips)
    Seat 3: cobno (1526 in chips)
    Seat 4: Romana797 (4765 in chips)
    Seat 5: rangeris332 (4541 in chips)
    Seat 6: mar798 (3148 in chips)
    Ed3819: posts small blind 25
    cobno: posts big blind 50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Ed3819 [Jh Ah]
    Romana797: folds
    rangeris332: raises 100 to 150
    mar798: folds
    Xandefla1982: folds
    Ed3819: calls 125
    cobno: calls 100
    *** FLOP *** [6c Jd Tc]
    Ed3819: bets 400
    cobno: raises 976 to 1376 and is all-in
    rangeris332: raises 3015 to 4391 and is all-in
    Ed3819: folds
    Uncalled bet (3015) returned to rangeris332
    *** TURN *** [6c Jd Tc] [9h]
    *** RIVER *** [6c Jd Tc 9h] [6d]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    cobno: shows [Td Qc] (two pair, Tens and Sixes)
    rangeris332: shows [Js Ac] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
    rangeris332 collected 3602 from pot
    cobno finished the tournament in 1009th place
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 3602 | Rake 0
    Board [6c Jd Tc 9h 6d]
    Seat 1: Xandefla1982 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: Ed3819 (small blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 3: cobno (big blind) showed [Td Qc] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sixes
    Seat 4: Romana797 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: rangeris332 showed [Js Ac] and won (3602) with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
    Seat 6: mar798 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

    I would like to mention that AJ suited is probably the lowest end of my range calling a raise out of position. I think my mistake here was betting the flop out of position. I wasn't worried about use "cobno." This player was a total donkey. But when "rangeris332" raised him, I was in a very difficult spot.

    What should I have done? Sure enough, if I called I would have split the pot with rangeris332. But being 4bet on a flop like that really threw me off. Did I make a nit fold? Or am I saving money in the long run? I really need help with this. I will not be offended if you tell me I have made a stupid decision. I am here to learn.

    Thank you in advance for any help you may give.


  • #2
    i think once you bet the flop you should probably call the allin, given the price youre getting and your reads that the opener is loose and the other guy is mental

    flop is ridiculously wet, flush and straight draws ahoy, and any facecard combo hand wont feel too uncomfortable here (JQ JK QK AK AQ) - you beat all of those hands

    sure you get screwed by overpairs and such sometimes, but the factors in play make this look like an ok spot to go with it

    it's quite early in the tournament, but you shouldnt be afraid of taking spots like this and getting a chipstack - if you're wrong then oh well, play another game

    ps. if you are planning to fold to a shove then either bet less on flop or just check, i guess you were probably planning to call vs the idiot guy but a bit unsure of the other guy

    and tbh folding isnt terrible, it's safer, but you will have lost a fair chunk of your stack and folded a fairly good hand

    so in conclusion, aw een
    and get a hud if you dont have one, makes it way easier to work out how your opponents are playing


    • #3
      **moved to better fitting forum JWK24**

      6 Time Bracelet Winner


      • #4
        Hope you don't mind i put your hand in the replayer so i can see it clearer. First off I don't play a lot of six max so don't worry about not following my advice. I dont mind the fold to the 2 all ins but given your reads I think I would have called in your place. Given your read i don't think the second villian has QQ KK or AA as he surly would have reraised us preflop HE could easily have JT or J6 though and have us crushed. our best hope is he has a flush draw or AJ, as its early we can stay alive and build our reads for later in the game. What I see as a bigger problem is the 400 chips on the flop When the pot was only 450 I think I would have made this lower (if i was going to fold to a shove) about 250 - 300 Grade b
        Last edited by Grade b; Tue Jun 04, 2013, 07:21 PM.
        I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

        13 Time Bracelet Winner


        • #5
          I would check call reasonable bet, fold after such action.


          • #6
            I would generally fold high top pair, top kicker if 2 other players already went all in. especially if one of the other had my stack covered. It is likely that you are running into two pairs, a set, or even a made hand.

            As for the preceding play itself, Depending on whether your 3 bet percentage is low enough, and how nit the raiser is, I would have 3 bet there. In general, I hate calling with AJ, unless you flop 2 pair of better, you don't really know where you are in the hand. With raising, you can easily fold to a 4 bet (unless villain is super loose+aggro) if he calls, you will then control the pot.

            The worst play I think is donk betting the flop (raising against original raiser OOP, just in case you don't know the term, I'm not calling you a donk). I agree with grade b, that the bet size was a little too big (not by much, I would probably bet 300 there, if I do bet at all), but I think betting at all was already a mistake. The result probably would have been the same, BB raises, rangeris re-raises, and you fold. But at least you save the 400.

            In general play, by checking, you can let the original raiser do the betting for you, allowing you to check-raise him, assuming this play is HU, you can even make him the one to fold his hand.


            • #7
              Sorry, accidentally double posted.
              Last edited by lolipedofin; Tue Jun 04, 2013, 11:01 PM.


              • #8
                I think a smaller bet on the flop due to the flop having straight and flush draw possibilities perhaps even checking the flop and assess the action that follows. As you mentioned Villain 5 has shown AJ 3 times from EP. Based on that i'd expect his range to be AJ+ and TT+ and when he overshoves to isolate the loose guy I think i'd fold.
                Last edited by EmotiveKiwi; Tue Jun 04, 2013, 11:27 PM.


                • #9
                  Hi Ed3819umbup: Interesting scenario here. I think 3betting the hand would be fine but calling is ok too. I would of preferred to check the flop with the intention of check raising/getting it in. When we lead out i.e 'donk bet' on this wet board texture we have to assume that we will get action more often than not. Our bet will often get called or sometimes even raised with flush and straight draws and weak one pair holdings. So for this very reason I would prefer to check raise in hope to build the pot as quickly as possible. As played I'm gonna call all in more often than not, however I'm not thrilled about it. Villain 5 is showing legit strength when he iso shoves player 3 so what this really boils down to is our reads on player 5. The fact that villain 5 has shown down AJ a couple of times doesn't give us a great deal of information but if I noticed that the guy had also been playing tight then I think we can find a fold. We must not be worried about player 3's holding as he has a small stack and is likely to be defending his big blind with a wide range of hands that we have crushed into smithereens. One more thing, if you're going to bet flop I'd bet less than you did. When we bet the size of the pot we discourage other players to call with weaker hands which is the opposite to what we are looking for. A bet size of 1/2 upto 2/3rds of the pot would of done just fine. I think I'm calling 60% of the time and folding the other 40%. ' If we know that player 5 is a good winning player then I'd fold more often, lets say 75% of the time. Cheers, Chris.


                  • #10
                    Thank you all for your very helpful feedback. I should have followed my read on the two donkeys. Like I said the big stack was raising rather frequently from the first two seats. My biggest regret is leading on the flop. I see it clear is crystal. So thank you for pointing that out. As you can see from my Sharkscope stats, I am struggling to even cash in MTTs. I go fairly deep, but I'm trying to make it to the next level and actually make it past the bubble, and maybe even further.

                    I really appreciate the help from you guys. Who knows, maybe I can take my game to the next level. Thank you again for your feedback




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