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Big 3.30 AK Re-Raise...I got further into Tourney!

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  • Big 3.30 AK Re-Raise...I got further into Tourney!

    Another hand, again its my betting What should I have done?
    Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

  • #2
    Hi WeaselBasher,

    I think this spot is completely read dependant on the villian.

    If the guy is lose and aggressive, then getting 36BBs in preflop with AKo is fine.

    If he is tight then folding after only investing 2BBs is also fine.

    Couple of things.

    This is a big 3bet. Normal size in this spot would be around 1200. A normal 3bet we could just flat and re-evaluate, we could also reshove and expect to have some fold equity. After this big bet we can't flat any more we would be commiting too many chips to fold. When we shove we could also not expect to have any fold equity.

    Readless, a large 3bet here I would normally read as strength. I must admit I was floored to see his cards.

    Did you have a read making the shove?

    Cheers
    Andy


    Quad Bracelet Winner

    Comment


    • #3
      hi Andy

      i have just started making notes of hands I play that I know or think that I could have played better. I just scribble down the hand number and maybe a few words against it. Unfortunately on this one no words.

      But..I now have a HUD, so I looked up his name. VPIP 58%, Raised 48%.

      It was a tricky spot for me as I thought my AK was a great hand Pre-Flop, so I wanted to win without seeing the flop. So many times my AK is no good come the flop.

      So, you are absolutely right (or rather I should say, correct) in that I should have initially bet more than 400, and bet 1200 instead. That was where it went Pete Tong.

      He was indicating he had one of the big 3 to me...but I thought he was bluffing.

      I think I should have called to his reraise to 2000.

      Trigger happy me!

      Many thanks for your input, I am learning alot from Analysing my hands..

      Weasel
      Last edited by WeaselBasher; Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:07 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi WeaselBasher,

        I hope you haven't got the wrong end of the stick.

        I think your 400 raise is fine. I would probably make it 440-500. Definately not 1200. the main thing is you should be using your normal raise size.

        The 1200 refers to the size of the villians 3bet not your raise. If he bet 1200 we could flat call. Becuase he's made it a larger 3bet means we can no longer flat call. We can only fold or shove.

        Also be careful you aren't thinking people are bluffing you without a reason to back it up . It's a fast way to losing money. People bluff less often than we think at micro-stakes.

        Cheers
        Andy


        Quad Bracelet Winner

        Comment


        • #5
          hi weasel

          your ahead pre flop so you got a nice read

          a good player told me don't be afraid to play big pot preflop if you know your ahead because thru this we can get deeper

          just unlucky that you lose the flip, oh well that's poker hope you win the flip next time.

          good luck

          Comment


          • #6
            ty Marvin

            Yes Andy I have misunderstood...but where did 1200 come from?

            I pfr 400, he rr to 2000 =1600

            Comment


            • #7
              Andy, I think that I should have initially raised more than 400
              Last edited by WeaselBasher; Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:30 AM. Reason: added"initially"

              Comment


              • #8
                ahhh...don't worry, I understand now!!!!!!!

                Sorry!
                Last edited by WeaselBasher; Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:37 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  That is a huge 3-bet from the villain. Usually a stupid large 3bet like that is a hand with which villain thinks he's ahead preflop but is afraid to see a flop. These tend to be pocket pairs JJ and under, and AK/AQ type hands. I am happy to take AK against this range, even if I don't think I have much fold equity. The pot is laying us a great price. Some bad players also will do this with any two broadways or any ace intending to get it in. Still AK is crushing this range (as it for the most part doesn't even include QQ, KK, AA).

                  Villain 3-betting that hand is fine, but by making it so big he is making a very high cost bluff. If he makes it 800-1200 he will get the same effect. He has the button so you will have to play the hand out of position if you call. This either puts you into 4bet/fold mode or forces you to play the hand OOP without the initiative, which should basically be like funneling chips to him. Instead by making the 3-bet so large he puts himself into a gross spot. He is getting about the right price to call, but he'll have to needlessly call off almost 40 BBs with a weak hand, or he has to sacrifice his equity in the pot while getting a decent price, after already investing 10 BBs.
                  4 Time Bracelet Winner


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oriholic View Post
                    That is a huge 3-bet from the villain. Usually a stupid large 3bet like that is a hand with which villain thinks he's ahead preflop but is afraid to see a flop. These tend to be pocket pairs JJ and under, and AK/AQ type hands. I am happy to take AK against this range, even if I don't think I have much fold equity.
                    Against an opp playing 58/48... I 100% agree with this here and I'd be happy to get it in with them pre, as AK is well ahead of their range.

                    John (JWK24)
                    Super-Moderator



                    6 Time Bracelet Winner


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Biggie for me was my inital bet. I thought it looked weak. I think I should have PFR 600. Anyway, thank you everyone for your input on this Good Luckumbup: Weasel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If your bet seems weak people will be more likely to play back with a wider range. When you're near the top of your range this is clearly a good thing as you get more money in the pot with a strong hand vs. a weak range.

                        I disagree with making it 600 unless the table is particularly call-y. 2 x or slightly more is the standard at this stage of the tournament. Making it 600 just makes you look more like a TAGfish. I'd rather people wouldn't even consider folding hands like AJ/AT/KJ/KT and would just snap 3-bet, allowing me to get AK all in with fold equity and a huge overlay.
                        4 Time Bracelet Winner


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oriholic View Post
                          He has the button so you will have to play the hand out of position if you call. This either puts you into 4bet/fold mode or forces you to play the hand OOP without the initiative, which should basically be like funneling chips to him.
                          I think this really is a key point on how situations like this should be considered. You really want to avoid making calls which force you to play guessing games out of position, especially when its for a good % of your stack.

                          Here as played is pretty much perfect, especially given the villain's range. I wouldn't worry at all about a perceived weak looking bet may have induced this, would you have wanted it any other way before the board came out? But if I found this was happening everytime I opened for 2 x I'd probably just up my raises to anywhere between 2.1x to 3x, either to get value or get away with putting as little as possible in the pot, depending on opponents.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Many thanks for taking time to reply guys.

                            Ok, maybe an initial bet just a tiny bit higher, as suggested by Coachie. 440-500

                            I didn't realise that you could program buttons on your betting area. I now have 1.8, 2.2 and 2.5.

                            I think the Villain would have called 600 tho'..still not sure about whether I should have just checked his re-raise to 2000. Its just that AK is amazing, if you dont have a flop

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WeaselBasher View Post
                              I didn't realise that you could program buttons on your betting area. I now have 1.8, 2.2 and 2.5.
                              2 x is the minimum raise...not sure how much use you're gonna get out of a 1.8x button I have my preflop buttons set as 2.5/5.5/7.5. The only opens I really use much are 3x, where I can just click the slider, 2.5x, and minraise. I use the other two for my 3-bets. I haven't quite decided on the best sizes, but I like 5.5x to 3-bet over a minraise when I'm in position and 7.5x to 3-bet over a 3x raise or to squeeze over a minraise and a caller when I'm in position, or to 3-bet over a minraise when I'm OOP.

                              I think the Villain would have called 600 tho'..still not sure about whether I should have just checked his re-raise to 2000. Its just that AK is amazing, if you dont have a flop
                              AK gets it in vs. AQ/AJ/AT and to a lesser extent KQ/KJ a ton. Also even if called by a hand like 78s or 99...say the flop is J83...it's going to be hard for the 78 or 99 to get to showdown if you keep the pressure on. On the other hand, T9 is going to make it to the river unimproved a lot, and you'll have the best hand! On most A- or K-high boards you can play for stacks and expect to be ahead most of the time. And if you do get it all in preflop against a smaller pair, you're never a huge underdog and the overlay makes racing against even a hand as strong as QQ, where you only have about 43% equity, +EV in most cases. You also have blockers to the only hands that have you in really bad shape, AA and KK. ie. if he only has QQ, KK, and AA, then he has QQ as often as AA and KK combined. (6 QQ combos and 3 each of AA and KK)
                              4 Time Bracelet Winner


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