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Profitable shove/call ?

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  • Profitable shove/call ?

    Heey guys,

    How do you know when your shove/call(pre-flop) is profitable?
    And when you are at the showdown,you know you're beat,but is that a profitable call in long term?

    Thanks !

  • #2
    This is a very broad question and it depends on so many factors. I assume you are asking about SnGs.

    My advice is to have a look at the Space Gravy videos and look up the gap theory/concept on google. Sometimes when you are first to act (say in the cut off) and the players after you are playing tight and trying to reach the money, raising/shoving a wide range (even 72o) can be profitable in the long term. Off course sometimes you can run into a monster but sometimes you suck out as well. Stack sizes, calling ranges, position and player tendencies all need to be taken into account.

    Simply playing your best hands will rarely allow you to get in a position to win: stealing, fold equity and getting your share of luck are all factors in running deep.

    Cheers,

    TC

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi hbhuang!

      There are a number of things that will go into this.... type of tourney, where you're at in the tourney, all of the table dynamics (reads, position, stack sizes, etc).

      It will totally depend on these things and there is not a single answer that will cover all of the situations that a player can be in.

      John (JWK24)
      Super-Moderator



      6 Time Bracelet Winner


      Comment


      • #4
        Ow,maybe i didnt give any information..oops..

        Well,I usually play large mtt fields and mtt-sng 90 man ,all normal speed.
        Sometimes,when i'm short,i will try to pick good cards and a good spot.My shoving range is like this: QQ+ shove in every position.Middle position TT+,KTs+,ATo+ and late position 66+,JTs,A2o+.The thing i would like to know is,is my shove profitable ? (If you have more questions about it,ask it please )

        When i have a medium-big stack,i always try to take some chips of my oppenents.I also face some short-stacked who try to double up.I have a tight image(see my shoving range above)..

        I dont know what information i have to give anymore,so feel free to ask .

        I thought there was a formule to calculate it,someone knows?

        Are the vids of Space Gravy also for mtt -sng big field ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi hbhuang!

          it will depend on the individual situation.... each one will be different, depending on the stacks, reads, where at in the tourney, etc... there is not one answer that will fit all situations... IT DEPENDS.

          John (JWK24)
          Super-Moderator



          6 Time Bracelet Winner


          Comment


          • #6
            Csi - m

            Originally posted by hbhuang341 View Post
            Ow,maybe i didnt give any information..oops..

            Well,I usually play large mtt fields and mtt-sng 90 man ,all normal speed.
            Sometimes,when i'm short,i will try to pick good cards and a good spot.My shoving range is like this: QQ+ shove in every position.Middle position TT+,KTs+,ATo+ and late position 66+,JTs,A2o+.The thing i would like to know is,is my shove profitable ?
            Here’s some help for your short game:

            You can find Nash, and SAGE charts here…
            http://justplaypoker.net/2009/07/nash-equilibrium-sage/
            ‘Kill Everyone’ (great book) uses a ‘Power Number’ chart, which expands the SAGE chart, by including multiple players, as well as your position at the table. These charts are basically ‘equilibrium’ plays, but not necessarily ‘optimal’ lines. What this means is, you can never be exploited (by better players) when you follow these charts.

            You may want to delve deeper into ‘push / fold’ situations, if so…
            'Kill Everyone' covers what they call CSI (Chip-status Index); you can find detailed info about ‘Changing your Play With CSI’ (chapter 3). You might also want to research Harrington’s Zone system (the original CSI), found in ‘Harrington on Hold ’em - Vol. 2’.

            Improving your game takes a lot of study, as well as play. To make this task easier, you should break down the many aspects of poker into sections; working on one section at a time, will feel less overwhelming.
            "May the cards be with you!"

            Comment

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