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Bad line taken, 1.10 3k

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  • Bad line taken, 1.10 3k

    The guy that opened the pot is a 60/30 but only 10 hands, the 3bettor was in his first hand, is flatting an option here or should i 4 bet or fold. Decide to flat because there's a reasonable chance i could be ahead of the 3bettor and would be willing to get it in with him on any flop that doesn't contain an Ace or a King but have no read. The opener is active but i cant be sure i have a better hand than him so would call and fold to a 4bet ship.

  • #2
    Posted this in the wrong part of the forum should be in tournament section sorry.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by darkmajik365 View Post
      Posted this in the wrong part of the forum should be in tournament section sorry.
      ***moved to tourney HA JWK24***
      Super-Moderator



      6 Time Bracelet Winner


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      • #4
        Originally posted by JWK24 View Post
        ***moved to tourney HA JWK24***
        Thank you John

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        • #5
          Hi Darkmajik365!

          4betting is an option here, because you are probably on pretty good equity vs. the opener's likely range and you are willing to play for stacks vs. the shortie; getting rid of the opener with a 4bet could improve your overall chances to win this hand HU versus the 3bettor.

          Flatting is an option here too though, and for MTT/SNG play, where chip preservation takes on much greater importance than in cash game play, it is one I think I'd prefer.

          You see...

          Unlike a cash game, equity in this hand is not your only consideration. You also need to consider what a loss may mean to your stack and its ability to continue playing.

          When you are deep like this, and when a DEEPER opponent might call a 4bet somewhat lightly, it really does not matter if you START OUT ahead, a loss that is larger than it has to be is going to hurt you quite severely in an MTT/SNG. In a cash game you just reach into your pocket and go at 'em again.

          If you are shorter than this, and even a flat is going to represent a severe hit to your stack if you feel you must fold, then a 4bet JAM is probably better if you have reason to believe your QQ is best.

          In this spot though, a 4bet is going to put you right up near a 33% commitment point for your stack, and if the larger stack happens to hold the sort of hand he actually holds (AA), or if he happens to flop BETTER than 1 pair with his (likelier) semi-cheese hands that just CALL your 4bet, making a 4bet has probably cost you your entire stack, and with it your tourney "life". So Flatting keeps you farther away from a commitment point...

          The "big" downside of flatting is that it could cost you value you might normally see by 4betting. In this spot we really do not have to worry about that a whole lot, as the short stack as probably stuck himself pretty hard with his 3bet, so we can expect it should be quite easy to get him in post flop. The only thing is, keeping our ability to do so CHEAPER by flatting pre could help us save US from being overly committed if a "bad" flop comes.

          ...and if that happens, we can solider on with 60+BB still in our stacks, and find a better spot.

          We may not have that option if we 4bet pre though.

          I think you played this hand quite well!

          Hope it helps!

          -JDean
          Last edited by JDean; Mon Mar 26, 2012, 05:41 AM.
          Double Bracelet Winner

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          • #6
            Thanks for your analysis Dave, was exactly what i was looking for I just wanted to make sure that this line was not to passive.

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            • #7
              Hi darkmajik! I don't think that the line was too passive and like the way that you played it. JD's point about being committed with a 4-bet was one of the first things that I thought of when I looked at the hand too. Good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24)
              Super-Moderator



              6 Time Bracelet Winner


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