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PSO Home tourney AK vs 77 against PSO trainer

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  • PSO Home tourney AK vs 77 against PSO trainer

    Hi everyone, Chris asked that I post this hand for analysis/discussion in the forums. This is my first post so hopefully the hand replayer works.....(fingers crossed) It's hard to know whether this is a good or bad call by me. I thought he was making a move with a fairly wide range of hands and thought it was likely I'd have two overcards. That being said, there was already a raiser before he shoved all-in so I should have put him on more strength than I would have if he was first to enter the pot. Anyway, I figured with blinds going up pretty quickly you don't get too many chances to double up in a tournament and if I could isolate to one person then I'd probably be a slight underdog to win the hand. Again, I did have enough chips to pick a better spot. Anyway, happy to hear thoughts. Nat.

  • #2
    *** moved to HA since member would like the hand analyzed JWK24***
    Super-Moderator



    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      hey natalie,

      i think i will shove here also because you can get into 3 way pot and still not risking your tournament life

      with AKs, you have a good chance to chip up so i love the shove

      it's just sad that you didn't hit but it's poker

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      • #4
        Chris said it chat that the all in move for me was negative EV so Im hoping someone can comment on that aspect. Not to worried about the outcome, just need to know what I could/should have done in this spot.

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        • #5
          nah if anything shoving 77 with 5 to act is an -EV move... From what I see you are on a tough table, and honu is more than capable of making a move... I am not folding that hand eithe,r AQ easy fold but not AK

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          • #6
            Hi Natalie,
            I bet he would of played it the same as you did if you swapped spots.
            chuckkky

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            • #7
              Hi Natalie! The extra chips here makes all the difference. With AKs here, I like the play and especially the overshove. Here are the reasons why. By overshoving, the chance that the original raiser stays is less, as they would have to like their hand enough to beat two players, not just one. If the original raiser folds, then AKs will play much better, as it will have more equity against fewer opponent hands. Let's look at it for both situations, if the original raiser folds AND if they call. To call with AKs, I would need to put in 3240 chips into a pot that will be 7390 (43.8%). AK hearts vs only red 77, from pokerstove, has 47.5% equity. IF the original raiser drops, then the hand equity (47.5%) is greater than the equity that is invested into the pot (43.8%).... so it is a +EV play to call in this particular situation. IF the original raiser calls the shove, then the hand equity of AKs will drop greatly. If the 3rd player has a top 5% hand per pokerstove, then the equity in AKs drops to 32.4%. If this is the case, then the call with AKs will be a -EV play due to the hand equity dropping from 47.5% to 32.4%. Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.umbup: John (JWK24)
              Super-Moderator



              6 Time Bracelet Winner


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              • #8
                Sometimes the situation can dictate the preferred action, so normally try to include the game, structure, reads and so on.....but....I can see why Honu would say it's -EV here after looking at what JW posted on the Pokerstove reading. Most of the time you'd have to expect the OR to come along. A raise/fold here is pretty bad to me. If you're raising in EP on that stack, you'd better be prepared to join the party. Now if the OR has been raising light, than yeah, you could expect a fold sometimes...so I don't mind the reraise, it's a better play than just calling. Welcome to the forum Natalie. umbup: On your other post... "Any thoughts would be good. I think my BB per 100 hands is 9.72. I'm only playing 6 tables at a time. This is over 4000 hands Is this OK for total noob?" Read more: Home – Poker School Online: Learn Poker Strategy, Odds and Tells http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz1ldR0aJ00 .....Sweet, sweet job newbie. The attachment is about impossible for me to read there though. I'm not sure if others have the same problem. You can always edit a post by hitting the edit tab in your post. (If it is a bad attachment and you want to change it.) . lastly...I'm making the exact same play against Cowboy here in this game all day. Enjoy, and best o' luck!
                Last edited by JWK24; Tue Mar 06, 2012, 12:42 AM.

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                • #9
                  Shoving an AK after a 3bet

                  Originally posted by Natalie3107 View Post
                  Hi everyone,

                  Chris asked that I post this hand for analysis/discussion in the forums. This is my first post so hopefully the hand replayer works.....(fingers crossed)

                  It's hard to know whether this is a good or bad call by me. I thought he was making a move with a fairly wide range of hands and thought it was likely I'd have two overcards. That being said, there was already a raiser before he shoved all-in so I should have put him on more strength than I would have if he was first to enter the pot.

                  Anyway, I figured with blinds going up pretty quickly you don't get too many chances to double up in a tournament and if I could isolate to one person then I'd probably be a slight underdog to win the hand. Again, I did have enough chips to pick a better spot.

                  Anyway, happy to hear thoughts.

                  Nat.
                  There isn’t any info on the type of tourney, or the style of the villains; so I’ll have to assume the following:
                  With the total chips at your table being around 40K, I will assume this is a 90 man MTT; if so, there are between 22-26 players left; average chip stack is between 5192 – 6136; 12 players cash; Cweniu has been playing large – making larger than standard raises and bets (not always with the goods) - just my read with the one game I played against him; 19honu62 is a cautious player, that wouldn’t 3bet a 22bb stack from HJ, without at least middle PP +, AQ+, (but may be a little looser if table behind him was ‘tight’ and he has the same read as I do on Cweniu.

                  You are sitting with a slightly more than average stack (42bb’s - soon to be 31bb's), facing a 3bet from a cautious ‘solid’ player over an original PFR who is opening a slightly wider range than the standard from EP; you have an AK, which are blockers, and you may even dominate some hands.

                  Fold option:
                  Your hand is far too strong to fold, especially with the given assumed reads.

                  Call option:
                  You would need to invest just over half your stack, if you do that you are never folding. Your hand will play well against the given ranges of the villains. Being that you are committing yourself, and others will be as well (if they call), might as well get it all in now; it may add extra fold equity (but most likely not).

                  Raise option:
                  If you are going to get involved, you might as well shove; the other players behind you only have a little more than the shove amount 19honu62 made. If you lose this hand, you will still be in the game. Depending on who decides to enter behind you (if any), your stack will be at least between 13bb – 20bb. If players enter behind you with a dominated hand, you may win a side pot.

                  You are always looking for chances to accumulate chips. Your stack almost doubles the villains; there’s extra dead money in the pot; you have a hand that plays well against the villains ranges (assuming reads are accurate (no super NIT’s involved)); and needing to limit the field 50% before you are ITM.

                  Personally, I’m shoving!
                  "May the cards be with you!"

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