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Quads re Hand of the Day

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  • Quads re Hand of the Day

    I would greatly appreciate the Langolier to review this and give me some input. I watched your hand of the day video about playing quads to maximise the pot. I flopped quads in an Open League game earlier today and tried to put into practice what you had said. Unfortunately I had only been at this table for two previous hands and had no reads as yet on the opponents. The initial raiser did not check to me, as in your illustration but put out a small C bet. This, I felt could mean one of two things, either he was holding AK and had hit his King and didn't want to frighten off any draws, or, he was holding a pocket pair smaller than the Tens and was unsure if he was ahead. As he had made a continuation bet, but only small, I just called as I wanted to keep him in the hand and thought that if I raised him he might fold if he hadn't connected with the King. On the Turn I min raised him as he was still only betting marginally, I wanted to see if he had hit at all. I bet 4XBB on the River, which he called. Your video was from a cash game, and this was an MTT, does the pot building you suggest still obtain for this type of game ? PokerStars Hand #74692190950: Tournament #495249784, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (125/250) - 2012/01/29 14:09:22 ET Table '495249784 939' 9-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 1: Tomik82 (28492 in chips) Seat 2: cucabura (9399 in chips) Seat 3: Butik13 (2390 in chips) Seat 4: sergei141777 (10735 in chips) Seat 5: lukichV (4680 in chips) Seat 6: ELENA DAV (7787 in chips) Seat 7: Bill Curran (7651 in chips) Seat 8: Lihoy best (10063 in chips) Seat 9: BMW123232 (12756 in chips) Tomik82: posts the ante 25 cucabura: posts the ante 25 Butik13: posts the ante 25 sergei141777: posts the ante 25 lukichV: posts the ante 25 ELENA DAV: posts the ante 25 Bill Curran: posts the ante 25 Lihoy best: posts the ante 25 BMW123232: posts the ante 25 BMW123232: posts small blind 125 Tomik82: posts big blind 250 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Bill Curran [Th Tc] cucabura: folds Butik13: folds sergei141777: folds lukichV: raises 750 to 1000 ELENA DAV: folds Bill Curran: calls 1000 Lihoy best: folds BMW123232: folds Tomik82: folds *** FLOP *** [Kc Ts Td] lukichV: bets 750 Bill Curran: calls 750 *** TURN *** [Kc Ts Td] [4c] lukichV: bets 250 Bill Curran: raises 250 to 500 lukichV: calls 250 *** RIVER *** [Kc Ts Td 4c] [6d] lukichV: checks Bill Curran: bets 1000 lukichV: calls 1000 *** SHOW DOWN *** Bill Curran: shows [Th Tc] (four of a kind, Tens) lukichV: mucks hand Bill Curran collected 7100 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 7100 | Rake 0 Board [Kc Ts Td 4c 6d] Seat 1: Tomik82 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: cucabura folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Butik13 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: sergei141777 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: lukichV mucked [Jh Ah] Seat 6: ELENA DAV folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Bill Curran showed [Th Tc] and won (7100) with four of a kind, Tens Seat 8: Lihoy best (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: BMW123232 (small blind) folded before Flop
    3 Time Bracelet Winner

  • #2
    Two lines of play

    Originally posted by Bill Curran View Post
    As he had made a continuation bet, but only small, I just called as I wanted to keep him in the hand and thought that if I raised him he might fold if he hadn't connected with the King.

    On the Turn I min raised him as he was still only betting marginally, I wanted to see if he had hit at all.

    I bet 4XBB on the River, which he called.
    There are two lines of play here.

    One: is the line you choose, without the min-raise you elected to do. Just by min raising, you may have put him off a river bluff. I’ve seen so many villains throw out feelers on two streets (sometimes reducing the turn bet – like this villain did), then pummeling the river with a shove. If he doesn’t bet into you on the river, then betting less than half his stack (1000 is a good amount), is the best line for possibly gaining more chips.

    Two: is a line focused on getting his entire stack. On the turn, you need to make a raise that will be less than half his stack (1000 is a good amount). If he goes for the turn raise, you then follow-up on the river for the balance of his stack. At this point there is so much in the pot, and his stack is worthless otherwise, he should call.
    "May the cards be with you!"


    • #3
      Hi Bill,

      The depth of money is significantly different here from the hand of the day video I made.

      The basic premise that applies to all these situations is this... when you flop a big hand, the goal is to ultimately play a big pot if possible. And the biggest pot we can possibly play on any given hand is one for all the chips.

      In the hand of the day video I'm advocating taking a line that will build the pot immediately on the flop, as in that hand there is a lot of money behind so if I'm going to get a big pot out of it I need to start growing the pot immediately... where as checking back the flop does not grow the pot and eliminates a betting round (it manages the pot or keeps it small, not what we want to do with quads on deep money).

      In your hand the depth of money is very shallow. There's 2600 in the pot and he only has 3655 behind. He c-bets for 750 on the flop. The goal is still to play for stacks if the villain is willing, but in this case flat calling his c-bet is perfectly fine, we don't need to raise to facilitate stacks happening. When you call there will be 4100 in the pot with only 2900 behind, and 2 betting rounds left to get that 2900 into the middle. If he's got a king, stacking him is guaranteed, and he's so deep in it at this point he may well stack off a lot of non-king hands as well (shoving the turn as a bluff, betting "to protect" QQ, etc).

      On the turn his min bet of 250 is a disappointment. If he has anything to give more action with, we should still be able to get stacks in since he's got so little left relative to the pot. I think making a small raise is ok, but actually may have flatted again, since the line indicates he likely does not have a king (he'd just shove with a king generally) and by leaving him in the lead we give him another chance to bluff or make a river blocking bet with a moderate made hand, that he'll still have a hard time folding to an all in raise.

      Note that flat calling again is not incongruent with the goal of winning the maximum size pot, since he's only got about a half pot bet left for the river anyway.

      As played, I think you should put him all in on the end, the pot is huge and when he calls your min-raise (I would have raised a bit more if going that route because min-raises are generally a sign of great strength) he is generally not going to be able to fold any more.

      Hope this helps.

      Head Live Trainer
      Check out my Videos

      4 Time Bracelet Winner


      • #4
        Thanks Dave, a big help thankyou. I did think about putting him all in on the river, but I felt that he may have folded rather than risk all his chips. I thought that if I bet less than half his stack, it would give him a chance to check/raise me if he had something worthwhile. As it was he still called even though he only had AJ suited that hadn't connected with the final board at all, he only had a gutshot So in retrospect, he may still have called if I had put him all in. Once again thanks to both of you for your responses. umbup:
        3 Time Bracelet Winner


        • #5
          On the topic of flopping monsters, i have to say thank you as well.. usually in this situation i would've checked and slow played it but after watching your video dave i tried to build a bigger pot.. i was trying to keep both guys in the hand with my min bets but here it is..

          don't know why the hand replayer isn't working atm..
          Last edited by Austerror; Mon Jan 30, 2012, 03:38 AM.



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