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A c-bet would have worked?

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  • A c-bet would have worked?

    well i didnt make any c-bet on the flop because of the two villains IN...what do you think of this hand buddies

  • #2
    I think checking the flop is fine. You have bad position, and the board is not good for you. After both villains check the flop though, you should bet the turn, because one of them would have more than likely bet if they had anything. I also think the river bet is way too small for you to fold, because you do have a pair.


    • #3
      One of the primary reasons for NOT playing trouble hands (KJ/AT/QJ etc) out of position is that you are un-sure what to do with them on certain flops. Example:

      you are UTG.
      you raise KJ and get called by 3 opponents behind.
      flop comes J 7 4, with 2 hearts.
      you C-Bet half pot, someone behind raises you 2 times your bet amount more.
      you call.
      Turn comes an A, you check, and villain bets 2/3rds pot.
      You fold, and lose a lot more than you had to, because you were un-clear as to the strength of your hand.

      In this hand though, you do not really have that issue when you enter with 77 from EP.
      In this spot, the chance of at least 1 over card being on the board is very large, and the chance of you flopping a set is very small, so your post flop actions tend to be much CLEARER with 77 than they are with some of the large broadway "trouble cards"; you either have a very strong hand (a set), or a very weak one.

      The IDEA of a C-Bet after a pre-flop raise is to represent that you hold whichever hand best fits the flop. Essentially, had you C-Bet on this flop you;d be representing that you;d raised UTG with a hand like AK, and for that reason you are now continuing your aggression for value. Had the flop come T 5 3, your C-Bet would represent that you'd raised on a hand like JJ+. In order to effectively leverage the power of a raise made out of position, you really should be C-Betting quite frequently. BUT...

      With a hand like 77, and 2 opponents behind you, do you REALLY think you are getting them BOTH to fold?

      Afterall, if your opponents have even minor poker experience they probably KNOW that you will tend to C-Bet quite frequently after raising UTG, right?

      If you C-Bet half pot and get even 1 caller, you are faced with a difficult choice of possibly check/folding around 15% to 20% of your stack, OR firing a 2nd bullet at the pot which will push you well past a 33% commitment point with 3 over cards to your 77 and no real draw chances to improve, right?

      So in this spot, a raise UTG with 77 can be ok, as if it gets you into a heads up pot, you may find it easier to fire a single bullet and take the pot down on continuation.

      When you do NOT get that heads up pot though, the chances of getting both the remaining opponents to fold is too great to like trying very often. Plus, the risk to your STACK if you try to get them both to fold and it does not work is far too great to really like.

      All this adds up to the fact that your CHECK here is fine.

      When it checks through on the flop, the turn does not bring any improvement to the quality of your draws.

      When it checks through on the river, again, you've received no improvement whatsoever, so your hand is pretty much only beating bluffs in this spot.

      While you may be kicking yourself a bit about NOT C-Betting, do not forget when you had to make that decision you had not CLUE it would check down to the river. If you were going to try to bet to take this one down, the TURN was your spot to do it. That turn was a major blank though, so if someone held something like a J, and was simply reluctant to bet the flop in case someone else had a K may actually be prone to CALLING a turn stab by you now.

      So overall, you did just fine in this pot.
      Had you played this way in position, I'd have said you played far too passively.
      Since you were UTG tho, and first to act throughout the hand, betting here may have lost you MORE than you needed to lose, so not doing that is fine.

      Hope it helps.

      Last edited by JDean; Mon Dec 12, 2011, 05:38 PM.
      Double Bracelet Winner



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