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2nl cash game, Was this bad play?

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  • 2nl cash game, Was this bad play?

    KQ in the HJ One raiser UTG for 4x BB I called CO and button also called Flop gave me top pair on a ver dry board, UTG raised for almost 1/2 pot with 3 others in pop I re raised to a pot sized bet, should I have just called the UTG bet? Turn came a 7 which gave a possible strai9ght draw but board still pretty much dry so fired again with only the UTG in the pot. UTG villian checked so I bet again at 1/2 pot he called. River came a Jack so maybe completing a straight if he held the 9/10, but figured this was out of his range. He checked I was trying to identify his hand and could only put him on possibly a big pair or AK didn't think he would have called on the turn with anything less than a KQ so checked it down. I lost this one but would appreciate advice on if I did anything wrong, if I could have reduced my losses at all.

  • #2
    At full ring, and quite possibly at 6 max too, I am folding pre flop with this hand.

    Unless we have some idea that UTG is very wide then we are generally against a range that is beating us already and when we flop a top pair we are still not sure we are good when we face aggression.

    When he continues on the flop I would only ever just call here for the same reason as above. His range is strong based on the actions he has taken so far.

    As played, I would probably check back the turn to control the size of the pot, and we can also get action on the river when he thinks we have given up.

    I like checking behind on the river. We beat a small amount of Kx hands so I don't see a lot of value unless he is a spewy player.

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    • #3
      Yeah this was a pretty loose table so wouldn't neccesarily put him on a range that beat me pre flop from the fact he opened UTG. But maybe its a hand I will need to fold in future to an early raiser.

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      • #4
        I agree with bhoylegned. If the opener was from MP and not EP, I may call, but I'm folding to an early position raise.

        John (JWK24)
        Super-Moderator



        6 Time Bracelet Winner


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        • #5
          I dont really mind the call here with KQ but that's depending on the villain's stats, If he is a loose player im definatly calling, on the flop when he cbets i dont like your raise i would rather just call here and I probably call him down if im getting the right price the only way I fold is to a big enough bet on the river where after he has raised pre from utg and bet all 3 streets id have to put him on AA or AK and that why I tend to try and keep the pot smallish with KQ. The way you played it Id rather check back the turn to keep the pot small, I like your river check though as you have decent showdown value

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          • #6
            I agree most with Maloco.


            If you raise OTF (which I wouldnt do), and get a call, all alarmbells should go off when you have a hand like KQ. Basically any hand that will call has you beat here. AA, AK, 88, 33. In this situation I would checkback the turn to potcontrol. I the bet is reasonably, i would call.


            A bold way to continue your line here would have been to shove OTR. You would have a very strong looking 3barrel bluff repping a set or 2pair. Not sure if they would call it off with aces thou. Lots of people on 2NL just cant fold aces...

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            • #7
              Unless I had reads that this player opens light utg I am folding this preflop, maybe even in a six max game too although that is close I probably call with KQs and fold KQo.

              As played when he bets into 3 other players on a K high flop you have to really think he has a strong hand AK KK AA.. I mean if I had QQ and I opened utg and three callers and the flop is K high I am not to happy to put a ton of chips into the pot vs this many players the likely hood that one of them holds a king is high.

              I probably call flop, which means he probably bets turn and I probably call that depending on size and fold to a river shove... its a tricky spot which is why I would have folded pre unless he was a spewy player.
              Tournament of Champions Winner 2014

              4 Time Bracelet Winner


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              • #8
                I think this is a fold pre-flop IMO

                Just say I do call and take a flop I am never raising the flop bet. Raising only gets called by hands that have us beat on this board and by flatting the flop bet you keep in his bluffs

                Raising the flop is a mistake IMO

                So you raise and get called. Once called I am never betting the turn. To expect a hand to call flop and turn with worse than KQ here is highly optimistic

                This was the 2nd mistake IMO


                Playing the KQ isn't really that bad but I think the flop raise and turn bet are bad.

                I would flat the flop, if he bets the turn I would fold, If he checks the turn, I would check back as this keeps in his QQ/JJ/10/99 etc which could pay off a light VB on the river (depending on the card) like if the river is a brick (2/3/4/5/7) I think QQ/JJ/10/99 pays off a VB on the river

                checking back also keeps in his bluffs that he might stab at on the river.


                When you start betting and raising then you make the villain need a strong range and KQ here isn't doing well against a hand that calls a flop raise and a turn bet & also raises pre UTG and bet into 3 oppo's on the flop


                I suppose what I am trying to say is when you play in a way that makes the villian need a strong range then you need more than 1 pair to be barreling off bets.


                Your flop & turn lines make the villain fold all weak hands and only continue with stronger hands that in all reality have KQ beat 90% of the time.

                The best thing you did was check back the river. Betting here would be a 3rd mistake. If you are winning the hand then you have got value on the flop and turn.


                Of course all my comments are in isolation of this one hand. Table dynamics and notes on player tendancies are very important.
                Last edited by TOD1999; Mon Oct 06, 2014, 03:52 PM.

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                • #9
                  Thanks for the input it really helps, yes the player was prone to raising loose even under the gun. But I did feel I had got myself into trouble on this hand and felt it was a good one to get some constructive advice that will help me in future.

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