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5nl - open utg KK flop top set K78, small bet to a flush draw we don't have...

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  • 5nl - open utg KK flop top set K78, small bet to a flush draw we don't have...

    This is a bet sizing question on the flop. We hit top set but need runner runner for 2nd nut flush.

    I make a small bet for the villain's reaction. Result, we get raised - now down to the 3-bet? But how much!

    Decided about 3-1 but should we make it bigger 4-1 villain is committed or just jam? Feeling we lose value with the 2nd nut K to block something?

    Not results orientated as played, it happens, set vs set. Trying to understand if there is any value in smaller flop re-raise (3bet) to see a turn or bet bigger to say - stack off now?

  • #2
    Looked at the boom hand again. Realize now playing deeper with the villain and they flop raised 4x and we re-raise 2.5x - don't think there are any margins on bet sizes here.


    • #3
      Your cbet is very small, less than pot. You are probably trying to get bad hands along but you are giving draws way too big odds to call. I would make it at least 60% pot.

      Your 3bet is kinda big, I think 2.2 x is the standaard sizing. (2.2 times his bet, not 2.2 times the pot)
      In this hand, nothing matters, you could have shoved instant and get a call, but if he has smt like 78, 9T, 69, QK, AK or a flushdraw, you don't want to push him out of the pot. You want him to make a mistake by calling against the odds.


      • #4
        Agree with Ray for the most part, flop cbet is way too small, if he has a flush draw we want to get value from them and not give them the value by allowing them to call cheaply.

        As for the flop 3bet, no matter the sizing, we look strong so I don't hate it. We take the pot if he has nothing and just perceived weakness but we do now get value from worse hands that can call.

        As was said, this hand is one that the money was all going in no matter what.


        • #5
          Thanks guys,

          The small (under 1/2 pot) flop bet was deliberate. How is that perceived by the villain? I assume with "reverse logic" a bet like that looks as if it's setting a small price for a draw. My response is normally to pop it up and make them pay.

          I agree it's dangerous, if in this situation the villain is on the flush draw and says "thanks" for the small bet. As played if they did call our small bet we can pair the board on the turn to re-draw to a boat or 2nd nuts on the river.

          Here the plan came together and the villain didn't want us to draw to a cheap flush "we don't have" in the first place.


          • #6
            Interesting strategy Forrest ! Stored in my library



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