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50NL, flopped NFD turn and river play.

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  • 50NL, flopped NFD turn and river play.

    Villain: 25/19/2.0 (57 hands) This was played at the regular tables... check back turn as played? What's the play OTR?

  • #2
    Call flop geez.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dirt eh View Post
      What's the play OTR?
      None, I would of folded way before

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      • #4
        Originally posted by birdayy View Post
        Call flop geez.
        I usually do just call, but I'm leaking so much money at these stakes calling with draws instead of raising draws. At the micros, calling was just fine but I feel like we need to both raise these boards here on the flop as well as just call. Gotta mix it up, especially at the regular tables.

        If we just call, and we miss OTT. Are we check shoving if the villain bets again? or do we just X fold?

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        • #5
          I disagree. Why do you feel you have to 'mix it up' all of a sudden? Just play solid and balanced. The hands you are posting recently are really spewey without good reasoning.

          It's a lot easier to balance calling ranges than raising ranges.

          We'd just x/fold river.

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          • #6
            Yes, I am feeling spewy lately. I think that after I posted my 25nl graph I decided that I needed to semi bluff more often and include a few river bluffs into my game. The thing that's been bothering me at the higher levels is that I'm playing more defensive poker than offensive. I'm almost turning into a passive player do to the higher aggression at these stakes. I will get it figured out, just really annoying when players are 4b jamming J9o in the CO vs. a BTN 3B... It's crazy up here.

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            • #7
              Look like villain turned some showdown value on the K with something like KTdd?

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              • #8
                Hi dirt,

                Given the line we took, shoving river is fine imo, it should have a good expectation as a bluff on this run out imo. And we have no showdown value with ace high in this spot, so go for it.

                Definitely prefer calling the flop, this is not a good board texture for us to c/r vs. the PFR and it sets us up to face a 3b that we may not even be able to call. And I actually think we should fold now to this large 3b sizing. 4b shove would be better than calling his reraise, but folding is better still imo. We have a max implied odds of 4.3-1, but are unlikely to realize our equity as we will often be facing a turn shove when we miss and have to fold then. Calling his reraise was, imo, the worst option.
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                • #9
                  Dave what do you think villain raises flop and checks back that turn with?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mike2198 View Post
                    Dave what do you think villain raises flop and checks back that turn with?
                    AQ, KdXd would be our target hands to fold out
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                    • #11
                      Why would he re raise AQ though? Is that something you would do.

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                      • #12
                        Well... this is why I posted the hand... I decided to ship river. Villain tanked and called with QJ... 50NL is fun! LOL

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mike2198 View Post
                          Why would he re raise AQ though? Is that something you would do.
                          I think I've said this before, but.... don't be quick to attribute what you or I would do to what a random (57 hand sample) villain does.

                          You asked the question. AQ is a hand some players might reraise on the flop, and slow down on a K turn. I'm not saying it's good, and LOL NO I would not do it.

                          Remember I'm just saying a river shove isn't bad given how the hand played and the run out... but the flop play is not how I would do it at either decision point and what got us in this pickle in the first place. We're lucky we even saw the river, much (most) of the time we are getting moved in on the turn and folding there (I hope).
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TheLangolier View Post
                            I think I've said this before, but.... don't be quick to attribute what you or I would do to what a random (57 hand sample) villain does.

                            You asked the question. AQ is a hand some players might reraise on the flop, and slow down on a K turn. I'm not saying it's good, and LOL NO I would not do it.

                            Remember I'm just saying a river shove isn't bad given how the hand played and the run out... but the flop play is not how I would do it at either decision point and what got us in this pickle in the first place. We're lucky we even saw the river, much (most) of the time we are getting moved in on the turn and folding there (I hope).
                            Right ok that makes sense, cheers.

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