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25NL Zoom, Turned boat, x/f river?

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  • 25NL Zoom, Turned boat, x/f river?

    Been playing pretty terribly lately and the results emphasise that. This spot was from Friday past. Pre, I didn't want to 4bet, because frankly I didnt want to stack off against a relative unknown in this spot. At the time he had never 3bet in 11 opportunities. No sample to speak off but it probably shows he wasnt just monkeying off with 3bets. Flop is pretty bad, happy to check and fold to a cbet. Turn, think it is fair to say that it looks like a promising card for my hand so I bet and get a call. River, puke, any A and any K are now beating me. Is this a spot where I should just let my gut feeling win out and just check fold? I don't see what he called turn with that I am still ahead of?

  • #2
    How many tables was he playing? What VIP level is he? Is he on his mobile? All these factors come into play when deciding whether to 4b/call off pre in these positions.

    I don't really like having a wide flatting range OOP here. I tend to play a 4b or fold strat with the exception of AJs, KQs etc which I think will be fine to play post.

    JJ doesn't really play that tremendously well, but flatting has merits. I'd personally prefer going with it pre since it's such a common spot for 25nl zoom regs to be getting out of line. This is just from my experience at the limit. I've seen plenty a reg 3b/5b TT given similar preflop action.

    River, I really don't see any value in betting. We can choose to x/c given he can turn TT or worse into a bluff, or fold based on sizing.

    We never get called by worse, and only get action from better, so because of this I would definately x/decide, usually erring on the side of folding.

    I think a decent reg should x back a huge amount of his range on this board (possibly his entire range). As for a traditional checking range, AT and under should x back otf, so he still has a lot of boat combos otr.

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    • #3
      Maybe KQ might call the turn, in case you might be betting with AJ, AQ?


      Had sort of a similar spot myself this morning bhoy, only probably worse because I wound up losing half a stack with 2pr to a better 2pr, that on a better day I'd have probably been able to fold.

      These big hand versus big hand scenarios, especially on action boards or versus good players, seem to require so much more thought/precision/etc - hopefully the analysis starts to come easier/faster at the tables with more familiarity/experience?


      Note to self - try to be more concise with descriptors/wording ... the slashes are excessive/annoying


      Hey birdayy!
      Last edited by TrustySam; Mon May 26, 2014, 11:55 PM. Reason: edited for clarity :)

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      • #4
        Birday if you were to give v1 a bluffing range here what would you give him? You said v1 can bluff TT but where does that put QQ then?

        Bluffing this river looks suicidal because even Bhoy can have some strong hands here. Im not sure what i would do with QJ in v1s spot here not that i would be 3betting it pre anyway but i dont really like barreling any turn card with that hand but if we did have QJ in BU spot would that make a better buff on the river than say TT.

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        • #5
          Hey bhoy,

          I think that check/folding the river is a fine option. birdayy summed it up well, we are never getting called by worse and only getting action from better.

          And he definitely has a lot of boat combos otr, as birdayy said AT- may well check back on the flop, so lots of his lighter 3b's can x back flop, AQ may as well, and of course so would AK/KK/AA. Also, we have a number of Ax combos in our range as well, so he doesn't just have a license to bluff if we check the river.
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          • #6
            Yeah, think it was much better line to check/fold, I did fold to the river shove at least so I didn't lose a stack.

            I there is pretty much 0% he was bluffing.

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            • #7
              I think QQ has too much SDV to bluff Mike.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by birdayy View Post
                I think QQ has too much SDV to bluff Mike.
                Hmm so you would x/c this river with QQ if villain leads?

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