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10NL ZOOM 6-max, bet sizing issues?

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  • 10NL ZOOM 6-max, bet sizing issues?

    I guess my bet sizing is butchered here? Please help! OTR: I choose to bet 2/3 so that the villain wouldn't move all in... I don't know... Taking a break for the rest of the day. Villain(5 hands) UNKNOWN!!!!

  • #2
    By noob: It looks a bit wrong. Thing to ask, how many streets to ask for, your line over presents the hand I think.

    The flop bet is almost like a bluff, so maybe just X/C – X/F or X/C and if not betted standard 2 streets for value.

    His bet on the river, I can only see QQ, 9T, sets doing that.
    Last edited by braveslice; Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:13 AM.

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    • #3
      I don't like 3betting pre with this hand. Vs a btn stl range range we dominate a lot of Qx and Jx.

      When we 3b we isolate the part of his range that has us dominated (AJ, KJ, KQ etc).

      It's also gonna be really hard to play OOP vs a dominating range when he calls.

      That being said...

      I think the flop is a clear x/c. The board is really dry, and I don't see much worse calling. It also protects our range when we want to x/c 99 and TT etc.

      Given we bet the flop, i'm not sure if we should be betting the turn. More draws came in so it might be ok to bet for value/protection, but I still don't think we should get 3 streets here. Our sizing is also awkward. We'll have slightly more than a PSB OTR so we are kind of in no mans land if we bet $2 OTT.

      If we just shoved river with a better turn bet size we wouldn't have this problem.

      As played I think we should make a disciplined fold. Two pair plays great against a calling range, but pretty crappy against a shoving range.

      If you were Villain 1, and you saw him fire 3 barrels with only 1/4 of his stack behind OTR, would you ever shove with worse?
      Last edited by birdayy; Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:24 PM.

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      • #4
        Like Bird, I call pre and play a small pot, check-calling all the way, folding river to a third barrel if I just have one pair.

        Since you 3-bet, you have to pot-control even though you hit, as your hand is still pretty weak, and won't get 3 streets from something like 99. I kind of like check-calling the flop even as the PFR, to keep hands like TT/99/A8s in the pot. C-betting as normal isn't terrible, but you should almost certainly check the turn when the flop bet is called.

        Villain showed up with a set of 8s, right?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
          Villain showed up with a set of 8s, right?
          No idea, I folded. My guess is 88 or T9. I think 88 puts me in OTT...
          Last edited by dirt eh; Fri Mar 14, 2014, 07:43 AM.

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          • #6
            Hi dirt,

            I don't really have much to add to what birdayy already said. Except to stress how critical a point it is to not be 3-betting this hand. We have no idea how wide the guy is opening but vs. a common button stealing range QJ plays much better for a call, keeping his dominated hands in the pot, than a big 3b that will fold out Q9 and get action from AQ+.

            I expect him to show up with 88 or 33 a lot here tbh (and we can't rule out QQ or JJ although there's only 1 combo of each since we block them), if I held those hands I wouldn't put you all in on the turn, the board is totally safe (I don't fear back door hearts), I can get your stack on the river if you have AJ+ but I can't win any more from AK/AQ/bluffs if I raise all in on the turn, so I'd call the turn and give you a 3rd chance to either bluff the river or make a pair to blast with. Plus if he raises the turn on such a dry board he's showing such strength you might find a fold with KK, since he basically always has sets and doesn't have enough bluffs in his turn range... but if he flats OTT, you will value bet KK again on the river giving him a 3rd street of value and making it harder for you to fold to the shove as well.
            Last edited by TheLangolier; Fri Mar 14, 2014, 08:59 PM.
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