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25nl Deep - BvB Ranges to get in

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  • 25nl Deep - BvB Ranges to get in

    Stats BB: $87.30 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 20, 3B: 9, 4B: 12.5, 5B: 9.5 AF: 2.3, Hands: 413 Vs Aggressive regs i'm just wondering if I should be getting this in? I know we are deep, so it might change things. I think once we 4b we shouldn't fold, because at this stack depth he can start having a 5b bluffing range.

  • #2
    Hmmmm. 5bet of 9.5 is pretty huge. I think there's a case for shoving AKs but then again you're 53% against a 9.1 range with AKo.
    Last edited by dirt eh; Fri Feb 28, 2014, 07:07 AM.

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    • #3
      Wow, you're very deep here. I wonder if just flatting the 3-bet (albeit OOP) might be best in this particular spot. (For 100bb, I'm stacking off every time BvB, as I'm sure you are also).
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      • #4
        I am flatting the 3b here, with JJ,QQ, AK and vs some more nitty player KK as well.

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        • #5
          The 25nl deep games do play pretty crazy though. It's a lot more aggressive than 10nl etc.

          I don't think flatting the 3b is very good because villains start 3b/calling ATs, AJs, AQo which we have dominated.

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          • #6
            Hi birdayy,

            Originally posted by birdayy View Post
            I don't think flatting the 3b is very good because villains start 3b/calling ATs, AJs, AQo which we have dominated.
            -I rather keep those hands in his range a long with all his bluffs and see a flop and get value postflop from A high boards, rather than have to 4bet fold AK or 4bet call a 5bet OOP.

            -
            AK 55.57%
            AK,AQ,AJs,ATs,99-QQ 44.43% (villain 4bet calling range)

            -I am not a big fan of playing a 4bet pot (a $16 pot going to the flop) OOP vs that strong of a range, think I would rather play a small pot OOP vs a much weak range.


            -I am yet to find someone that bluff shoves 200bb at least on 25nl-50nl zoom. I really think will be rare the times someones gets it in with AK, QQ or worst here.

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            • #7
              His 5bet range looks that way 3bet=9, 5bet=9*0.095=0.855%hand range KK+, and you won't have enough samples for his 5bet hand range I think. and you need BvB situation samples to use them more accurate, if you don't have enough stats just look at his average all-in equity , I'm fast sure it won't be less than 75%.
              Last edited by Shichi-77; Fri Feb 28, 2014, 07:48 AM.

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              • #8
                I think actually we have a number of options available to us. I think flatting the threebet is very profitable and might be the most profitable option.

                I think calling the fivebet might be better than shoving and that shoving is reasonably sketchy.

                Is that 5b range or 5bet % ? That matters a lot, as has been indicated above.

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                • #9
                  Hey all,

                  I too prefer flatting the 3b. As played I would be more inclined to flat the 5b than shove, although it's less attractive to me than flatting the 3b.

                  While it's true that the money is deep enough where the villain could have a 5-bet bluff range in theory, I just think that most villains simply don't.
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                  • #10
                    so what is more important here is the stats we haven't seen yet

                    what is this player's three-betting tendencies look like? those are going to put their initial three-bet in a ton of context.

                    what is your fold to three-bet? what is your SB opening range in his HUD?

                    The fact that he has 3b = 9 tells us nothing to be frank
                    Last edited by GarethC23; Sat Mar 01, 2014, 04:36 AM.

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                    • #11


                      And 9 is 5b Range, not 5b%

                      My fold to 3b BvB is 55%, and my RFI is 56%
                      Last edited by birdayy; Sat Mar 01, 2014, 06:13 AM.

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                      • #12
                        His PFR from BB is 7% , his 4bet range 4% and his 5bet range 9%. His 3bet from BB 4.1% .
                        I just don't understand 5bet range of 9%. 5bet is a part of hand range of 3bet, if it's 9% he has to 5bet fast every time after 3bet, his 5bet % has to be at about 100% as I understand it. What do you think about my calculations ?
                        Last edited by Shichi-77; Sat Mar 01, 2014, 11:26 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Shichi-77 View Post
                          His PFR from BB is 7% , his 4bet range 4% and his 5bet range 9%. His 3bet from BB 4.1% .
                          I just don't understand 5bet range of 9%. 5bet is a part of hand range of 3bet, if it's 9% he has to 5bet fast every time after 3bet, his 5bet % has to be at about 100% as I understand it. What do you think about my calculations ?
                          His 3bet tot is 4% but his 3bet vs a steal is 8%. Those numbers might mean nothing 200bb deep because his 3betting range might change, he might start 3betting more hands for value instead of flatting so much IP.

                          My guess is if he was depolarized on 200bb stacks then he might flat Birdays 4bet with most of that and 5bet the top of it?

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                          • #14
                            That's handy that HM gives 4bet/5bet ranges - think PT only gives %?

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                            • #15
                              This claims the stat is called 4Bet+ Ratio

                              https://pt4.pokertracker.com/forums/...p?f=58&t=48879

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