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10NL 6max - Open utg JJ, raised over called, trapped sqeeze bet size $5 or shove

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  • 10NL 6max - Open utg JJ, raised over called, trapped sqeeze bet size $5 or shove

    This is another Zoom hand. Thinking my "back squeeze" or 4-bet looks so bad.

    I ramped up the bet size from $3.75 - $5 to play to a caller. Then felt trapped into the hands that "should" now beat me and playing out of position post flop.

    So shoved into a potential QQ+ or AK. Would you:

    1) Flat JJ paying 60c into $2.25 oop
    2) Nominal squeeze/4-bet bet size to get a caller
    3) After thinking it through then just shove it all in


    Last edited by ForrestFive; Sat Feb 22, 2014, 09:33 AM. Reason: wrong back squeeze terminology again - 4bet

  • #2
    I think there is a slightly suicidal edge to that action.

    I don't see what worse hands can call here, I think QQ/KK/AA and AKo and AKs can call, I doubt TT or anything below does.

    I don't think we are wasting JJ by calling. If we are going to 4bet, and play out of position, I don't think we want to make it a small 4bet.

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    • #3
      Hi Forrest,

      I think 4-betting all in is about the least desirable choice here. We have opened UTG and and been 3B by UTG+1. Then UTG+2 cold calls the 3B. There's no reason to think they are lite here, and P5 is certainly not folding QQ+ to our action, so I think we are just stacking ourselves off bad needlessly. When raising we want opponents to be able to make calling or raising mistakes. This action prevents a raising mistake altogether, and makes it very difficult for the opponents to make calling mistakes as well.

      Really I think the best play by far here imo is to simply call, we have great implied odds to go set mining and can expect decent action when we hit one. 4-betting readless here is basically turning a hand with tangible post flop value into a bluff, vs. an already strong range in V5 and where no better hand will actually fold.
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      • #4
        Yeah shoving here is lighting money on fire.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the replies,

          I agree with most replies when I post in the HA thread, so don't follow up and disagree with what more experienced players say.

          Now is good because in this situation I don't want to play this hand post flop. And completely agree with what Dave said perfectly:

          "...here is basically turning a hand with tangible post flop value into a bluff,"

          OK yes just flat call and play a pair, what 99-JJ into over cards? How many overs 3? in a 3-bet 3 way pot. To me the 3-bet over call is a deeper stack checking position. Set mining yes but no, can we make a value bet oop and get paid.


          If we miss, considering pre-flop action, I can't turn my hand into a bluff on the flop, turn and certainly not on the river. I'm not experienced enough to do that, even with A8s vs A4s I check behind turn when I should bet.

          So here in this situation I felt my play was the best option.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ForrestFive View Post
            OK yes just flat call and play a pair, what 99-JJ into over cards?
            Check/fold? It's ok, you don't have to win every single pot you vpip.

            Set mining yes but no, can we make a value bet oop and get paid.
            Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but I think we have a reasonable expectation of it here. V5 should often have a strong range 3-betting an UTG open from UTG+1. And V6 can sometimes be flatting QQ+ as a trap himself, or flatting hands like 88 where we have a chance to set over set him, so his presence is not irrelevant in the equation too imo.
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