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10NL 6-max Zoom QJs MW

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  • 10NL 6-max Zoom QJs MW

    Hi, villain on the BT is playing 21/15/5 FCB=20% over 178 hands. Others are unknown. If this was heads-up I'd certainly check raise with this hand. But I'm having trouble proceeding with FD on multi-way pots. I tend to play more passive. How should the play differ if we had AhKh for the nut FD ? Cheers!

  • #2
    If we have the nut flush draw we absolutely can't fold the turn. I think here we have three legitimate concerns which merit your fold: 1) Getting paid -- can we lead on a heart river and get called by a ton of worse? Probably not. Worse folds, better calls and there will be enough of the latter on any heart river. 2) Not drawing to the nut flush -- better flush draws out there 3) Could be drawing dead already -- paired board hurts us. I think the nut flush draw will still be too strong to fold in this spot given the price, because number 2 flips in our favour from disfavour. Let's say the actual turn was a . You can always lead out on this card as a bluff and get villains to fold river pretty often when you brick out, assuming only one calls turn umbup:

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    • #3
      Thansk Garteh,

      But what about check raising the flop ?
      It may fold out hands that have quite equity against my like 7x or some weak overpair.

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      • #4
        I dont like the idea of folding or continuing if the aciton gets reopened, I think we're getting such a nice price 3 way that calling is way more profitable

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        • #5
          Would it not have been better to lead out on the flop as a semi bluff. If it gets raised,then fold,if not getting the correct odds.

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          • #6
            Hi Gareth!
            But what about a 3-bet preflop to something about $1,30?
            I thinck we could represent a huge hand that the othersure will fold...and if they not we have a hand with a huge potential..

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            • #7
              Originally posted by fp_boss77 View Post
              Hi, villain on the BT is playing 21/15/5 FCB=20% over 178 hands. Others are unknown. If this was heads-up I'd certainly check raise with this hand. But I'm having trouble proceeding with FD on multi-way pots. I tend to play more passive.
              Hey, fp_boss! Finally thought of something that might be helpful (?) ... that I got from live training umbup: I guess reads make everything so much easier, because different moves from different villains can mean .... very different things ... And here we have some - neither of the 'unknowns' is using auto top-up, so we can assume they're likely casual players. And the button, having played almost 200 hands, who's using auto top-up is likely a reg - although the low 'fold to c-bet' is unusual. The other tip from live training was to check the number of tables people play too, since the more tables a person plays, the more likely it is they're a reg? Not sure if everyone else who plays 10nl would agree with my ranging here, but an open from utg with 78s isn't something I see very often, so I would assume someone who's betting out that big into 3 people would be doing it with 44/55/77, 88, or possibly 99-AA, and that the outs for Q and J making a pair might very well not be good? And then, I guess we only want to be check-raising if (1) we have a monster combo draw where we know our outs are good, (2) or if we think everyone'll fold? So here, while it might be more likely an unknown could be playing with a wider range, we don't know for sure that even if that's true, the villain will fold a hand like 78o or a better flush draw. And the button we know for sure most likely won't, so ... I think you played this hand great! No need to mess with perfection umbup: But like yeah, those tips from live training - they seem like kind of a small thing, but I rely on them a lot, and they seem to help a ton. Def they count as reads, so like ... we do have reads in zoom I think
              Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Jan 20, 2014, 08:28 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TrustySam View Post
                And then, I guess we only want to be check-raising if (1) we have a monster combo draw where we know our outs are good, (2) or if we think everyone'll fold?
                Oh, now that I think about it ... this part's from live training too ... bwahaha! Everything I know about poker has come from PSO, so I guess that goes without saying that if I say anything interesting strategy-wise ... it's not mine


                Wonder which class this came from - will check my notes later to see if the spot was similar to this one

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TrustySam View Post
                  Hey, fp_boss! Finally thought of something that might be helpful (?) ... that I got from live training umbup: I guess reads make everything so much easier, because different moves from different villains can mean .... very different things ... And here we have some - neither of the 'unknowns' is using auto top-up, so we can assume they're likely casual players. And the button, having played almost 200 hands, who's using auto top-up is likely a reg - although the low 'fold to c-bet' is unusual. The other tip from live training was to check the number of tables people play too, since the more tables a person plays, the more likely it is they're a reg? Not sure if everyone else who plays 10nl would agree with my ranging here, but an open from utg with 78s isn't something I see very often, so I would assume someone who's betting out that big into 3 people would be doing it with 44/55/77, 88, or possibly 99-AA, and that the outs for Q and J making a pair might very well not be good? And then, I guess we only want to be check-raising if (1) we have a monster combo draw where we know our outs are good, (2) or if we think everyone'll fold? So here, while it might be more likely an unknown could be playing with a wider range, we don't know for sure that even if that's true, the villain will fold a hand like 78o or a better flush draw. And the button we know for sure most likely won't, so ... I think you played this hand great! No need to mess with perfection umbup: But like yeah, those tips from live training - they seem like kind of a small thing, but I rely on them a lot, and they seem to help a ton. Def they count as reads, so like ... we do have reads in zoom I think
                  +1.

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                  • #10
                    Thank you guys for the insights.

                    Sometimes we play so many hands that we get in a maze when trying to analyze our session later. I think I played it just fine.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tonydolphin View Post
                      Would it not have been better to lead out on the flop as a semi bluff. If it gets raised,then fold,if not getting the correct odds.
                      Originally posted by sharpmind93 View Post
                      Hi Gareth!
                      But what about a 3-bet preflop to something about $1,30?
                      I thinck we could represent a huge hand that the othersure will fold...and if they not we have a hand with a huge potential..
                      Both these questions sort of ignore all the other hands we get dealt in this situation.

                      In terms of leading out on the flop as a semi-bluff, I think our hand is simply too good. If we are going to do this I would rather it be with a hand we don't mind folding if we are raised. We mind folding QJhh. overcards with a gutshot and abackdoor flush draw, not so much.

                      sharpmind, if its true that we could represent a huge hand... why don't we squeeze with A5o or A7s or K9s? I think, again, QJs is just too good at seeing flops, to squeeze. Its a hand that plays well multiway. If we have a great squeeze spot, that doesn't mean we should squeeze every hand. Just like if we have a great bluff spot, we might not want to bet every hand, like the nuts for example.

                      Certain hands are good for certain things. QJs is a good hand to see a flop with as deep as possible.

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