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Nl2 kk

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  • Nl2 kk

    UTG with KK vs a 20/5 player. Bad call on the river?

  • #2
    Looking at the hand I was confused at what they hand by the line they took before they showed the hand.
    The hands that do make sense however is flatting pre flop with QQ if he see's you a nit as 3betting will only get action from better. AQs KQs QJs with a flush draw makes sense and also 22 77 55. Against this range on the river you have 44% equity and you only have to pay another 0.50 to call so I don't think its the worst call at all. Just one of them sick river spots where I probably feel I'm beat but since its cheap I make the crying call


    • #3
      ouch river

      I watched this a few times, and in my opinion if you want the Blame so you can plug a leak in your game,it's a bet sizing issue from the start. If I may, let's dissect it, and question it right from pre-flop, where the significance of a 3x raise to roll out the carpet for the cowboysseems to be missing it's OOomph, because of Table Limit size and perhaps because he has a slightly bigger stack and is looking at a pocket pair too, so he thinks and calls. The post flop sees a less than pot size raise, which is easy to call and reveal no info to your foe you are way ahead or way behind and proper betting can be used to ferret info.
      I don't want to second guess you because i don't know the Mood of the players, the typical actions and who is tilted and other considerations, or what was going on at the table the 5 or so hands that directly precede this hand.
      I hope you gain something from my critique,one of the most important parts of self assessment is honesty and understanding during self appraisal. This reality check/mental inventory will yield great results if you are strong enough to admit mistakes or frivolous actions , bad decision type plays and improve upon your Shortcomings. it will also help you in years to come to be able to sort of "Handicap" the other players skill level, and react accordingly to the game they play. i hope this helps!


      • #4
        so , tell me , was it a bad call on the river?


        • #5
          Hi The0den,

          I don't think we will be seeing bluffs in their river raise range after we bet 3 streets. I think the hands that they float the flop with and continue to a turn bet will have backdoor hearts that pick up a FD OTT and hit OTR.
          If we try to think of the hands that see the river and raise we might be looking at something like: QQ, 77, 55, 22, AsQs, AhJh, Ah5h, 9h8h, 8h6h. Against that range we only have 12% equity because I think hands that have showdown value will be calling and not raising. Hands like Qx, JJ, TT. And the only hand they could be overplaying is AsQs because since the Qh is on board and the Ks is in our hand there is less combos that float the flop and improve on the river with a pair of Qs. To make the call we need 20% equity and unless we have information that they can bluff raise with their busted spade draws then its unlikely we are going to be good here.


          • #6
            b/f the river


            • #7
              Hey Oden, Firstly, I don't see anything wrong with your line / bet sizing... It looks pretty standard & consistent on all streets [bet/bet/bet]. Given your perceived strength, I am concerned when Villain raises OTR as it is consistent with how many ppl @ 2NL would play hands like 77, 55, 22 or BDFD, so not sure how often we're still ahead & as George has already pointed out we need 20% equity to make the call. Whilst its never easy laying down KK, AA... think its a b/fold. That said... Villain played QQ very passively as I would expect most ppl @ 2NL to 3bet with QQ p/f & probably get it in before the river. Tony [Prodigy237] umbup:


              • #8
                I think we are going to get shown 22, 55, 77, QQ, or AXhh here almost all the time. While bad players do things that make no sense all the time, they usually do have certain genres... this villain is mostly loose/passive by nature, so his nonsense plays will be stuff like calling down 3 streets with ace high, or hero calling K high after the turn goes c/c, stuff like that. Passive players really don't bluff the river (largely don't even consider it) and only clickback raise with super strong hands. Bet/fold guys like this to death imo with KK.
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                • #9
                  Thank you guys for comment and help me improving my game!
                  Well, I must be honest, I was not putting QQ at his range cause, although he is a passive player, he calls a 3x bb raise pre flop, instead of raising. Also the other streets were played by him very conservatively.
                  Next time I'll be more careful



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