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Raise or call?

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  • Raise or call?

    Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
    I dont know what to do here i felt i had to raise to try and get stacks in i was praying he had AK lol.

  • #2
    I feel like both can be profitable, but since it's a SB, BB situation he is going to have more bluffs on his range.
    So I'm calling turn, to usually check-raise river.

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    • #3
      Good point il keep that in mind, without reads though i never expected him to be barreling the turn without a hand, i think he either had air and all his pairs KQ and what not that hes just barreling the A.

      Comment


      • #4
        We rep a super narrow range when we raise the flop (33, 55, most good kings would 3b), so I like raising the flop vs good players.

        It can also induce rebluffs from the villain on such a dry board texture. Calling and raising the turn looks too strong IMO, especially when an ace hits.
        Last edited by birdayy; Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:58 PM.

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        • #5
          All valid reasons guys! Whichever line we take is villain dependent. The line mike took is what I would usually go for being IP and against an unknown which I assume is the case if Mike didn't provide stats/reads. umbup:
          Last edited by geoVARTA; Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:57 PM. Reason: Typo: thanks taxi128 for pointing out

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          • #6
            I read most of these threads but seldom comment. But I have 2 Questions


            Gambling----- how can he check - raise the river? When he checks the hand is over.



            GeoV------ If he is Out Of Position (OOP) When are you considered to be In Position.
            Triple Bracelet Winner

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by birdayy View Post
              We rep a super narrow range when we raise the flop (33, 55, most good kings would 3b), so I like raising the flop vs good players.

              It can also induce rebluffs from the villain on such a dry board texture. Calling and raising the turn looks too strong IMO, especially when an ace hits.
              Hi Birday are you saying that im likely to get floated if i raise that dry flop so go for a check raise, what about the turn if its a blank are you checking or betting.

              I guess your never raising here as a bluff then, whats the sort of board your raising with pure air or bottom pair then KQ5 or something like that?

              What about if CO opens i flat on BU and the BB 3 bets CO flats and i flat, would you make a play on a 896 type board repping two pair+ knowing they likely have an overpair or giving up.

              Comment


              • #8
                This has all got a bit confusing.

                As Taxi spotted, you're IN position. Villain can't really float OOP. He was the PFR. You can't check-raise because you're closing the action on each street.
                Flatting the c-bet is fine. You could consider also flatting the turn, as there aren't a huge number of scary river cards, but I like raising the turn to set up an obvi-shove on the river if villain calls the turn raise.
                Bracelet Winner

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mike2198 View Post
                  Hi Birday are you saying that im likely to get floated if i raise that dry flop so go for a check raise, what about the turn if its a blank are you checking or betting.

                  I guess your never raising here as a bluff then, whats the sort of board your raising with pure air or bottom pair then KQ5 or something like that?

                  What about if CO opens i flat on BU and the BB 3 bets CO flats and i flat, would you make a play on a 896 type board repping two pair+ knowing they likely have an overpair or giving up.
                  Dry flops like this one can be good boards to attack because it's likely to miss a raisers range. However, it's pretty obvious how dry it is, so some villains might 3b the flop or float us with A high once we c/r.

                  So yes, you can easily raise the flop as a bluff because our value range is so narrow.

                  896 would hit our bu flatting range harder than the squeezer, but it is likely because of the pot size that they will just shove over a flop raise, meaning our raise wth an OP rather than folding.
                  Last edited by birdayy; Tue Sep 17, 2013, 05:22 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
                    This has all got a bit confusing.

                    As Taxi spotted, you're IN position. Villain can't really float OOP. He was the PFR. You can't check-raise because you're closing the action on each street.
                    Flatting the c-bet is fine. You could consider also flatting the turn, as there aren't a huge number of scary river cards, but I like raising the turn to set up an obvi-shove on the river if villain calls the turn raise.
                    I just ment that flop in general if i was to raise that flop as a bluff would i get floated alot was what i ment and if that is true then i could just raise the flop with my set knowing im gonna get floated in future was what im getting at.

                    I guess alot of the stuff i come out with gets complicated its all this stuff im watching but not fully understanding these plays i see.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mike, the way you played it is exactly how I would of played it On the turn you NEED to raise The board is wet for possible flush, straight and even a full house, therefore there's NO need in giving the SB an extra FREE card. Good play umbup:

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                      • #12
                        Have been sick the last couple of days - not sure if my mind's back to functioning yet. Figured maybe I'd write some stuff down, go to the store, then come back and re-read it, and if it sounds really 'out there' then maybe I'll need to give it some more time


                        Blind vs blind, some people might choose to double-barrel this board with draws too?

                        - Kx
                        - Ax

                        Also:
                        - QJ, QT (straight draw)
                        - XcXc like 9cTc (flush draw)

                        Guess it'd be most EV to target Ax and hope to get paid off? Rather than wait for the river in hopes of getting a small 3rd bet out of Kx and Ax? Like, if all the draws miss on the river, maybe there aren't so many hands willing to call a river bet/raise, so better to hope the villain has Ax and raise the turn?

                        Will come back and re-read this in a bit lol ...


                        EDIT: Assessment - too patchy ... will leave it a day and hope things are better tomorrow ...
                        Last edited by TrustySam; Wed Sep 18, 2013, 12:51 AM. Reason: edited for clarity

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
                          Mike, the way you played it is exactly how I would of played it On the turn you NEED to raise The board is wet for possible flush, straight and even a full house, therefore there's NO need in giving the SB an extra FREE card. Good play umbup:
                          This kind of bucks conventional wisdom, but ... I guess if, based on the villain's bet sizing, we felt like we could rule Ax out of the villain's range, and felt that the villain would likely check-fold to a river bet with Kx ... might there be times we might want to raise the turn with the best hand, even as the heavy favorite, to try and get a fold, since there'd be nothing to be gained by letting the villain see the river?? I'm trying to stay more in the box for 10nl, but maybe at higher levels it might be beneficial to sometimes go outside the box and this sort of move might come in handy? I don't know?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TrustySam View Post
                            Have been sick the last couple of days - not sure if my mind's back to functioning yet. Figured maybe I'd write some stuff down, go to the store, then come back and re-read it, and if it sounds really 'out there' then maybe I'll need to give it some more time

                            EDIT: Assessment - too patchy ... will leave it a day and hope things are better tomorrow ...

                            Forgot to mention the bet sizing yesterday - that's something I'm still working on too

                            Like with the turn raise of $1.20 designed to be called by AK (and likely A3, A5), maybe there was a size that other Ax hands like A9-AQ might have been willing to call as well? Like maybe $0.95-$1.05? Or something?

                            Although maybe the villain didn't have Ax, so maybe that was the most $ to be made out of that spot?


                            Wish I hadn't had to add everything all piecemeal like this
                            Last edited by TrustySam; Thu Sep 19, 2013, 06:39 AM.

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