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KK in MP NL10

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  • KK in MP NL10

    Hello, Don't have info on V5. After his c/r OTF I thought that he might have sets,draws and was intend to fold OTT if he would bet. after He checked OTT it was clear he doesn't have monster but straight for 5x hands closed. that's why decided to call his bet OTR or value bet PP OTR . Did I make mistake?

  • #2
    You may have to bet turn, since you are allowing draws to get a free card if you don't.
    As played we can't really fold river, although a set or straight are highly likely.
    If you had a read on villain indicating he rarely bluffs, we might be able to get away from it.
    But if we call the flop minraise we almost commit ourselves in calling at least 1 more street.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GamblingProp View Post
      You may have to bet turn, since you are allowing draws to get a free card if you don't.
      As played we can't really fold river, although a set or straight are highly likely.
      If you had a read on villain indicating he rarely bluffs, we might be able to get away from it.
      But if we call the flop minraise we almost commit ourselves in calling at least 1 more street.
      you are right about draws , but there won't be another club too often,there's possible straight already , after his check OTT probability of sets and straights reduced because they have to bet for value and protection from FD OTT . but there are also over pairs in his hand range , am I wrong ? After his check OTT my targets are OP, probability to hit set OTR is less than another club OTR. so I just tried not to blow pot anymore, because there's already 120BB in the pot and it's not bad result and 260 bb effective stack left behind, If I bet OTT shoving river would be unavoidable. folding OTF is too nity , isn't it?
      Last edited by Shichi-77; Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:20 PM.

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      • #4
        Sure checking turn for pot control is fine.
        But if you think you have him beat there, I see no reason for not value betting.
        And yes overpairs are obviously a part of his range.
        It's just his river bet, that doesn't make sense for it to be an overpair.
        I think folding flop is arguable, I wouldn't do it though.
        Last edited by GamblingProp; Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:10 PM.

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        • #5
          Without knowing the UTG villain I would fold to the flop check-raise and not worry much about it. Your hand looks like QQ, KK, AA. When villain check-raises he is essentially telling you that he can beat those hands. A set could certainly check the turn. I would bet turn to shove river as a bluff if I knew the player and could get him off a set. But I don't, I don't think I could, and I wouldn't have seen the turn. I don't think the river is a call. Sure, maybe you will occasionally see some spazz outs with TT or a missed flush draw. I think you'll see more better hands, such that you aren't getting the right price to call. In spots like this you are trying to put 80bb in on the river good with one pair on a four straight board where villain could have just about any of the hands that beat us. I would definitely narrow my range for putting in a huge amount of money umbup:

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          • #6
            If stacks are 100BBs effect, is it still a fold on the flop? A find myself folding a lot here or entering in check-call mode, wich turns my hand face-up.

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            • #7
              Hi Shichi,

              Villain's x/r OTF looks super strong Vs 3bet p/f & Cbet, but then Villain 'x' OTT appears weak?

              My initial thoughts were Villain may call 3bet p/f & x/r o/pairs or f/ds & given board texture lead out with a set OTF; especially if he thought you had AA, KK, QQ, AK... & same again OTT, as would expect him to double barrel to build pot in case you had a hand like AcKc or AhKh.

              Is there an argument that we should bet [... having made the decision to call x/r OTF] after Villain 'x' OTT?

              As played, my gut tells me QQ, JJ [poss TT] or busted f/d although he may do same with 55 or 88; so I'm leaning towards a call OTR [... for no other reason that it doesn't make sense].

              BR

              Tony [aka Prodigy237]
              Last edited by Prodigy237; Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:21 PM. Reason: Added

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              • #8
                My Reaction was that it could be a busted flush draw (or a set). To have a straight he'de've had to call your 3bet OOP with A 5, 5 5, 4 5, 6 5 or 7 5. Then check raised the flop with same, I guess A 5, 7 5 of clubs might do this and the check raise on the flop does look like a combo draw of some kind (or a set). I find the turn check surprising. If he had a straight (or a set) he has to bet with 2 flush draws out there doesn't he? That's why I thought it could be a busted flush betting the River. A nasty spot here with no reads mmmm. yuk. I think I'd probably call But I wouldn't like it. I guess that's why Gareth's a pro and we aren't. He wouldn't even be in this spot.
                Rob.

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                • #9
                  He had QQ , It was very difficult call for me. After gareth comment I'm sure it's not profitable on a distance .

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                  • #10
                    Hi Shichi,

                    As a matter of interest... What were your stats [incl. 3bet range] going in to the hand?

                    BR

                    Tony [aka Prodigy237]

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                    • #11
                      overal 8-10

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