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NL5FR 4 bet turn

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  • NL5FR 4 bet turn


    i dont usually bet turn here so small, kinda wanted them to stay in pot but had a feeling villain would raise, wich they do,my hand is so strong shall i call villains raise here and check raise river/bet river (if board doesnt pair) or was 4 beting ok? had villain on a set so didnt think they wouldd fold.!
    Last edited by UrGetinTaxed; Thu Aug 01, 2013, 09:51 PM. Reason: explanation was a bit wrong

  • #2

    would have bet the turn a bit bigger, like 80 cents, to go for smaller bets once you hit your hand is usually not a good idea. We will often leave value on the table that way.

    I think your 4 bet allin on the turn is fine, we dont have a lot behind, so he should pay us off with any made hand or drawing semibluff and I dont think he is likely to have a complete bluff here which he will follow up on the River with such a small Stack to Pot Ratio. And since the board could get more scary for his made hands and also his drawing hands might completely miss OTR, imo he is more likely to play us off now than vs a lead OTR.


    • #3
      You played it good, but I have an objection on the turn shove.
      While going all in would get maximum value from flush draws there, since you have 2 hearts I would prefer a call.
      Also your hand is too good for you to be afraid of getting outdrawn on almost any river.
      It doesn't make a lot of difference overall since money is going in 90% of the times there, so I can't really argue about shoving there.


      • #4
        Hi urgettinTaxed.

        If you "had villian on a set", and you suspect he won't fold then your turn shove is 100% fine imho.

        In hind sight it is pretty easy to say, "I doubt he had a set" though! (unless the villain is REALLY a nit! ...or you are!) :-)

        Whenever you hold the nut hand, there really is only 2 concerns:

        1) What are my chances of being out drawn?

        The only "worries" are the board pairing, or a 3rd h. With 2 blockers to the flush, AND 1 possible re-draw h to the true nut (8h for straight flush) flush worries are really minimized.

        2) How best do I get all the money in?

        This would require more info on the villain, and on you to assess critically, but:

        The more likely you are to be perceived to chase weak draws to the river for big pieces of your stack, then the more often you should flat his raise OTT...

        The more likely he is to bet for value on lesser hands than your nut straight regardless of effective stack considerations or appearent committment levels, then the more often you should flat his raise OTT...

        The more likely it is that the villain might 2 barrel bluff, then the more often you should flat his raise OTT...

        All in all though, my opinion is that given your read of him having strength in his hand, then the BEST thing for you to do would be to get your chips in immediately. ANY action you take on the turn to continue with the hand is going to indicate great strength to an opponent with even marginal awareness, so any sort of CC or CR line on the river is not going to be a solid one unless the villain is strong enough, or dumb enough, to bet anyway.

        ...and if he is strong already, you may as well put 'em in OTT when you got the nuts, right?

        Hope it helps.

        Last edited by JDean; Fri Aug 02, 2013, 06:41 PM.
        Double Bracelet Winner


        • #5
          Hi taxed,

          I think it's essential to raise again. I would take the villain's turn raise to be solid strength, so there's little reason to think we won't get the action. Sets are certainly in their range, as well as 2 pair combos. Sets are probably drooling to get stacks in right now before a 5, 6, T, J, or heart can come off the deck and mess up their plan to stack you... that's a lot of potential action killers, so oblige them right now.

          Also agree with betting bigger on the turn, I like about the same sizing as your flop bet here so .80-.85c
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