PokerStars homepage
  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

25nl 6max zoom, turn set on 3bet pot on 200bb deep, get shove on river

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 25nl 6max zoom, turn set on 3bet pot on 200bb deep, get shove on river

    BTN its a 2 tabler from russia playing 20/20 11 hands no 3bet or 4 bets so far BB, 10/15 9,2 3bet, 10% squeeze 186 hands PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com Button ($73.01) Carlos_DZ (SB) ($53.83) BB ($40.01) UTG ($30.58) MP ($20.11) CO ($27.81) Preflop: Carlos_DZ is SB with 7, 7 3 folds, Button bets $0.75, Carlos_DZ raises to $2.50, 1 fold, Button raises to $4.25, Carlos_DZ calls $1.75 Flop: ($8.75) 9, 2, 3 (2 players) Carlos_DZ checks, Button checks Turn: ($8.75) 7 (2 players) Carlos_DZ bets $6.50, Button calls $6.50 River: ($21.75) 4 (2 players) Carlos_DZ bets $15, Button raises to $62.26 (All-In) Total pot: $51.75 Results below:

    Button didn't show Carlos_DZ didn't show 7, 7 (nothing).[/spoiler] So first question was 3bet ok? given that btn its deep and that we might get squeeze from bb if we just flat? Guess we have to call that tiny 4bet right, even OOP? What do i do on the river easy call? im only behind 99 and 56, and my hand looks a lot like TT-QQ.

  • #2
    Hi Carlos,

    I just give you my opinion step by step:

    "So first question was 3bet ok? given that btn its deep and that we might get squeeze from bb if we just flat?"
    although we dont have a lot hands on the btn here, and the fact that he is russian makes it a bit more likely that he will play back, I think 3-betting is ok here. I would pretty much never flat here, but might think about folding.

    "Guess we have to call that tiny 4bet right, even OOP?"
    yeah, given that you are 200+ BB deep I think you should setmine vs his very small 4-bet.


    "What do i do on the river easy call? im only behind 99 and 56, and my hand looks a lot like TT-QQ."
    No, not an easy call imo. You took an aggressive line and have not shown any weakness so far, so he should not be likely to bluff you. I have been trying to figure out his range for 20 minutes now but I cant makes sense of it since of his small 4-bet. I think his most likely hand after his shove is A5 of hearts but thats only one combination.

    If he somehow decided to three bet PP here its still not likely he has them on the river imo. I dont hink he will have a set of 99, 22 or 33 here often, since he would get more aggressive on an earlier street instead of shoving the river. Especially since the turn makes the board halfway coordinated. Furthermore he should not get to the river with the last possible set: 44.

    If he made a ridicilous fourbet with 56s, his postflop play would make sense.

    If he decided to fourbet some Ax of hearts he might turn them into a bluff on the river.

    If he decided to make a ridicilous fourbet with a T8 kind of hand, he might turn them into a bluff as well. Although given your aggressive line, bluffs should be less likely as I mentionend.

    You need to be good 25% here to call and its hard to make sense of his range given his small 4bet, I think thats a pretty tough call, but lean towards calling, if you were as deep stacked as him, I would fold.
    Last edited by almigthybald; Thu Jul 25, 2013, 04:32 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Carlos,

      Preflop I would generally flat or 3b depending on the villain. Folding is out of the question as at the very least we should be able to set mine profitably. So if the villain is prone to being over aggressive or spewing a lot post flop, then I prefer flatting and set mining, expecting to get appropriate value after the flop when we hit. If they are not going to make big spews post flop, then set mining isn't as profitable and may not be at all, simply because their wide button range will necessarily flop fairly weak on average, rarely making a hand strength worthy of big action. But now 3-betting can be profitable exploiting their wide button range, and putting the burden on them to make a hand which they often won't. And being this deep, if they 4-bet us (and indicator they may well have an action giving hand) we can still be getting the right price to call and set mine, now having the expectation of getting paid when our 7 comes. And yes absolutely call the click-back 4b.

      On the river I am always calling here, for 2 reasons:

      1) We are at the very top of our range. And as played with the line we took, that range is very heavy in overpairs TT-QQ and ace high bluffs.

      2) The few hands that beat us, 99, 65, A5, don't make much sense for the villain to play in this manner... in particular click-back 4-betting pre. I've talked about this action a lot in my live training classes, a min-4b is a fish bet sizing tell of a monster (when not a routine play like it might be for a maniac or super-LAG). So my suspicion at that point in the hand is that he's got AA or maybe KK. Don't let the flop check throw you off, he may well be getting cute thinking you missed, give you a chance to hit a pair. Not the optimal line, but bad players do things that make no sense all the time. And in conjunction with point #1 above, he should feel super comfortable shoving AA on the river for value... He thinks he's got our TT-QQ trapped.
      Head Live Trainer
      Check out my Videos

      4 Time Bracelet Winner



      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks almightybald and dave, for the deep hand analysis, really appreciate it.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with calling the four bet and every action taken postflop. I just am not sure about three-betting. I am really not that worried about BB squeezing enough to make flat calling suboptimal with these stacks. Its a factor, but not a big enough one in my estimation.

          River raise I take a less optimistic view than Dave but agree given the way the hand has been played we should not fold, that it would be likely burning money in the long run.

          Comment

          Working...
          X

          X Cookies Information

          We have placed cookies on your computer to improve your experience on our website. You can change your cookie settings at any time. Otherwise, we'll assume you're OK to continue.