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25NL: AA UTG vs Unknown UTG+1 in a 4bet pot

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  • 25NL: AA UTG vs Unknown UTG+1 in a 4bet pot

    I've gotten an opinion about this hand from someone whose play I respect a lot and just wanted to put this out there to see what others think. I still feel pretty sick about this hand... Thanks in advance! Lester
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  • #2
    Wau. That was a really bad 3bet/call line preflop from the villain.

    Absolutely agree with stacking off OTF since his hand looks a lot like JJ/QQ/KK = 18 combos and 99,TT = 6 combos. Although I would really find it hard to ever put him on anthing worse than QQ (JJ at worst) when he 3bet/called pre...How can you ever fold? Well played imo. In the long run you should be making a lot of money here. Just a small side note. I would have sized the 4b a little bit smaller to about 2.5x but after seeing how wide he is calling 4bets I cannot disagree with your chosen sizing (but you can never fold postflop unless you played against a solid regular and the flop comes KQJ monotone or something silly like that)

    EDIT: Sorry, did not notice how deep the stacks were and somehow thought this was 50NL. Definitely 4bet more than 2.5x. 3x looks like a good number to me but it is essentially the same as yours so nh
    Last edited by TommyGun369; Tue Jul 23, 2013, 02:28 AM.

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    • #3
      If villain flatted pre flop and showed a load of aggression on the flop would you consider folding if he bet the turn big?

      What about if the board was super dry like 9d 6h 2c.
      Im just wondering when you guys start considering you might be up against a set, i also agree that we can stack off on this flop to though.

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      • #4
        Hi iggy,

        The bet sizing on your 3b is a bit big imo, I think it makes it crystal clear we have a big hand and we leave the villain no room to come back over the top of us light at all so we only get stacks in pre here vs. KK.

        As played I think he's got QQ/JJ/AK an awful lot here. Maybe TT or 99 sometimes although those would be really bad hands to 3b an UTG raiser and then call this large 4b, but lots of players make this mistake. Regardless, I like the flop c-bet (can bet a bit bigger as well) and when he raises I am always stacking this off. Given how large the pot has been bloated by the preflop action I think folding here would be a terrible equity mistake. Let's assume villain would raise/commit himself on the flop with all overpairs, AsKs, and the sets. In our worst case scenario... let's remove all combos of KK saying he would always 5-bet KK pre (not true, in reality sometimes he has KK here), and give him all combos of TTT and 999 (also not true in reality, sometimes he does not 3b preflop with this I'd think), so even against a range of 99-QQ and AsKs we are a 60% equity favorite. Adding in combos of KK, removing some of the set combos, any possible worse 1 pair hands or "moves" with AsKx, only serves to increase our equity.
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        • #5
          Thanks for the analysis, Dave. From his large 3bet, I thought he had JJ+ and when he flatted my 4bet, I thought it might be KK (with the outside possibility he might be holding aces as well). Then when the flop came, I gave AsKs a thought. When my c-bet was raised, I did consider the possibility of him holding a set but thought (as you mentioned) that 3betting an UTG raise preflop and then flatting a large 4bet with 33, 99, or TT is a really bad play. At this point, I thought it would be really bad to fold due to the low SPR. So the 2 hands that I thought were mostly likely was KK or AsKs. Although playing the same way with big slick is also a bad play, I thought that bad players were more likely to get sticky preflop with it than medium pocket pairs. Is my ranging much too narrow? Just wanted to ask a few more questions here if I may:

          Originally posted by TheLangolier View Post
          The bet sizing on your 3b is a bit big imo, I think it makes it crystal clear we have a big hand and we leave the villain no room to come back over the top of us light at all so we only get stacks in pre here vs. KK.
          Do you actually mean my 4bet bet preflop? If this is the case, I reraised $4.81 to $6.75 into a pot of $2.79. Should it have been something like a raise of $3.06 to $5?

          Originally posted by TheLangolier View Post
          I like the flop c-bet (can bet a bit bigger as well) and when he raises I am always stacking this off.
          A bigger c-bet would be something like $9.50 into a pot of $13.85?

          For argument's sake, if I had played it more passively, the pot would have been smaller, thus making the SPR larger. For example:

          iggyo raise to $0.50
          Villain reraises to $1.94
          iggyo calls $1.44
          Pot = $4.23
          SPR = 8.04

          Would this be enough for me to at least consider a fold somewhere along the way? It's not that I would even think to play this hand more passively because I now feel I played the hand to my own satisfaction. I'm just trying to understand this spot a bit more.

          Thanks again!

          Lester
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