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25nl FR - 4bet AA vs Rock

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  • 25nl FR - 4bet AA vs Rock

    Villain was 7/6/4(3b) over approx 270 hands. My friend and I got in an argument whether we should 4bet or flat his 3bet. His reasoning was that since the villain is so tight, he would fold hands like JJ/QQ and maybe even KK if I 4bet and it would be better to call and get him to bet the flop, while at the same time make use of my positional advantage. I, however, disagree with this. While the villain had a tight range, I didn't see him as nitty enough to fold QQ+ preflop. He might fold QQ, but definitely not KK. I also had a somewhat (take that with a grain of salt) bluffy image with my own 3bets and that could be the final push to get him to shove QQ/KK if he was paying attention, or maybe even JJ and AKs, even if I doubt it. Another argument I had was that I want to get it as close to all in as possible against his tight range while I have the best of it instead of possibly giving him postflop equity. If he folds to my 4bet I still pick up a nice pot because I don't think he'd go with something postflop that he wouldn't go with preflop unless he hits. I might have left something out in my reasoning here as I'm very tired and this hand was a few hours ago. Any thoughts? .......
    Last edited by Feskprins; Fri Jun 14, 2013, 08:55 AM.

  • #2
    Hi Fesk,

    Imo this is an easy 4bet; we want to get maximum value from his range and if we flat and the flop comes low and dry he will have an easy time getting away from AK. I'm not giving a nit credit for folding AK QQ+ preflop and if he's paying attention and sees that you've been very active then he will have a tough time folding JJ.

    I like making a 4 bet to $6.25, he could easily interepret this as a bluff and 5b shove with his entire 3bet range. If he flats your 4b then the SPR will be just over 1 which simplifies things a great deal postflop so I definately favour 4betting.

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    • #3
      Hi Fesk,

      7/6 is a pretty big nitbox. Your raise is to 4.5x and he's making a solid 3b from out of position, so I do think his range is super tight here, maybe not even AK, or only suited combos of it.

      Honestly it's probably hard to go wrong either way here.

      Flatting: There will be $7 in the pot and $16 behind. Advantages: We will be able to get away from the very rare bad flop (basically, KQx where his big c-bet is almost always a set). Disadvantage: He may be scared by certain flop textures (this player type is always scared!) and not stack off the last $16. Ace high flops obviously, but also monotone flops that are not his suit, low connected boards like 875, etc.

      4-betting small: Advantages: We avoid the scary flop syndrome this player type so often experiences post flop by further tying him in, making it easier for him to commit with an overpair on the flop. Disadvantages: He will probably fold the weakest parts of his range, JJ for sure and maybe QQ.

      4-betting big: I see no good reason for this, it lets him off the hook too easily with QQ-.

      On balance my preference is to 4b small as I think the advantages outweigh flatting. The flop texture we can get away from flatting is very rare so a very minor factor. And as for him getting away from the bottom of his 3-betting range when we 4b, the more likely hands he folds here are also those that are the most likely to see a flop he deems as unfavorable should we flat.

      Sizing, I would make it really small as per above. A click-back min 4b would be 5.39 to go... no reason to be quite that small, but I might go $6-$6.25 here. I think even a nit will have a hard time folding a strong hand for $2.75-$3 more after just putting $3.25 in.
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      • #4
        Thanks for your inputs, Oli and Dave! I don't think a call is terrible either, I was in fact considering it for a split second for the same reasons, Dave. What ultimately got me to 4bet was my image (even if it didn't weigh very heavy in the actual decision, but still pushes to a 4bet) and that if I ran this 10000000 times, I think it would be more +EV to 4bet than to call. I also agree that 4betting big is a mistake a lot of players would make here in an attempt to get it in faster but that would only more or less force out the weaker part of his range. In review, my 4bet was probably somewhat too big after all. I was quite surprised by how the hand unfolded: Again, thanks, much appreciated! umbup: ....

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