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10nl 6max, QQ in BB...raise or call?

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  • 10nl 6max, QQ in BB...raise or call?

    villain 3 VPIP/PFR 28/25 ST 60 villain 4 VPIP/PFR 84/0 ST 0 villain 3, who has been stealing quite often, opens in the CO and loose passive BTN calls. i look at my two QQ in the BB and thinking that if i raise both opponets might fold, and i want to play a pot with the fish in. i call, flop comes K high(not what i wanted to see) and villain cbets. fish folds and i decide to call once because its a dry board and he probably would cbet. he bets the turn and i believe i can no longer continue. should i 3bet? and if fish folded so be it, i would have take it down preflop, winning a small pot rather than loosing a bigger one

  • #2
    Bro, 3 bet here like 100% of the time! The CO can be opening loose and will fold a reasonable amount of the time leaving you HU with the fish when he calls, which is going to happen more than you think. Even if they both fold it's not a big deal, you win money how can that be bad?

    I'd rather take the initiative and build the pot now, firstly as the fish has over 100bb's behind you want to grow the pot to allow for the money going in on later streets. Also If you don't 3b you'll be stuck OOP without initiative, this will mean it's hard to build the pot when you see a flop you like but also hard to play optimally if you see one you don't.

    As played calling one and folding the turn is fine but you shouldn't get yourself in that situation.

    Good luck

    Last edited by Croyd93; Wed Mar 20, 2013, 03:44 AM.
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    • #3
      Agree with Croyd. 3-bet is a great option here (with calling being a bad option, folding being terrible).

      Biggest reason is that your QQ is way ahead of villain 3's opening range. So you want to raise for value. Also, the fishy player cold calling is passive dead money you collect every time he folds. He will fold most of the time. When he doesn't fold, guess what? Your way ahead of his range so your getting value from him when he calls! Tons of value.

      Another reason why 3-betting is a good idea is because your out of position, both relative and absolute. Your going to have a tough time playing post-flop in that situation with any hand, but QQ even more so. 3-betting will usually take down the pot pre-flop, and when that doesn't happen you will usually take it down on the flop with a c-bet.


      • #4
        Hi Espada,

        I think we are missing a lot of value not reraising here.

        Flatting a raise with QQ in order to keep a fish in the pot can be fine if our 3b would confront the fish with having to call 2 bets cold, and they are not likely to call 2 cold, while isolating the opener has much less value than playing a pot with a strong hand and the fish in. This situation is totally different though.

        I don't think there should be a large concern with folding the fish out here because A) he's not going to have to call 2 bets cold, he's already voluntarily put 3x in the pot cold calling the first raise, and B) the guy is playing 84% of his hands to boot, so let's face it, he doesn't seem to like to fold. Additionally V3's range is wide here we know, but he too will feel the pull to call too loose because of the presence of the fish behind him which he'll assume will over call. I'd be really, really surprised if you 3b to about $1.10 here and both opponents fold. I think you will get at least 1 caller and won't be surprised at all to have both call more often than not.
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