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10NL 6-max Zoom - good play by villain not raising 2 pair on flop or...

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  • 10NL 6-max Zoom - good play by villain not raising 2 pair on flop or...


    Is this hand good or bad and I don't actually know.

    I raised AdQd utg and get called by the bb. Not seen this villain before and the flop 8hJdAs rainbow.

    My c-bet gets flat called OK I don't know now - but the villain has 2 pair.

    1) Is this good by the villain not raising me to get value from my utg open - maybe I hit my Ace?

    The turn comes a 5d now I have a nut flush draw the villain checks to me and I fire a 2nd barrel and get raised. Do I see 2 pair? Nope.

    2) Is this bad by me to 3-bet the turn as a value semi-bluff on a draw?

    Villain checks turn Qc now we both have less than 1/2 pot bets behind so I put the rest in >>busted flush top 2<<.

    Good or bad villain or hero got lucky?
    Last edited by ForrestFive; Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:08 AM.

  • #2
    flop is fine by both of you. turn and river is misplayed. shove turn to villains c/r. c/r was a huge mistake by villain as it´s a line for maximizing value not for maximizing protection but fishes very often do this.

    river isn´t lucky for you at all. you had a lot of outs and you hit one of them, but i wouldn´t bet as villain showed what is called often the fish nuts line on turn and this should be most of the time two pair and set. however given by the pot odds and the fact that you had to call a bet by villain, this mistakes isn´t that big.

    so beside the point that i would have shoved the turn you played it well. pay more attention to bet sizing and stack sizes.

    to answer your question, villain is a weak passive player obviously and you could have done better but you went basically into the right direction.

    good luck at the felts!


    • #3
      Hey Forrest

      Villain's line is probably fine. They can check-raise the flop now or raise the turn as they did. Once the turn gets three-bet they should probably shove or fold and its pretty hard to find a fold in a spot like this.

      You should definitely bet the turn, but I don't think three-betting the turn for the minimum makes sense. You are likely behind when he check-raises, so we should be trying to minimize the amount of money that goes into the pot. That means calling, not raising. You have committed yourself with this play, whereas you can save some money versus a river shove if you just call and don't get there.

      Our hand is too strong to fold on the turn. We would really like to be able to put the money in behind good. So if we call we have the best shot to do so. We have position, we will get to see the river card, and we know what cards we are looking for versus our opponent.

      When we three-bet the turn we reopen the action to a four-bet. Can you think of a hand of his that check-raises the turn that fold to this three-bet?

      So both i) check-raises turn and ii) folds to 2$ more. I can't think of one, so I don't see what it accomplishes to make it $5. Does that make sense?


      • #4
        Hi Gareth, Thanks for the review. I understand you perfectly from training it's a BWP or maybe a 3-BWP - a bet without purpose that does not accomplish anything. I agree on your point about the villain's line. I check call a flop set oop. I garante/guarantee 1 street of value. A x/r may make a standard c-bet fold. Then try to build a pot on the turn. Totally missed ranging opponent on 2 pair in this hand. I was resigned to say nice had sir for a set when I put the rest in on the river with top 2. @DivorcedDuck I can't agree here we shove the turn. We started even stacked just +100bb. With diamonds and Queens and probably discount Aces shared I'm looking at 3:1 in direct + implied odds. Can't see it with 1 card to come. We are just evens at the start and end of the hand all-in. Maybe at 250bb - 300bb deep and even then the HA trainers say no? I'm not experienced enough to make draw decisions that deep. Thanks for your replies. umbup:



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