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good fold or bad?

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  • good fold or bad?

    PokerStars Hand #94045037153: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2013/02/14 16:11:47 ET
    Table 'Dagmar IV' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: bountyman444 ($49.50 in chips)
    Seat 2: GoodFight.gf ($50.75 in chips)
    Seat 3: kingkong263 ($52.22 in chips)
    Seat 4: GhostFM ($59.40 in chips)
    Seat 5: nul3m0 ($58.38 in chips)
    Seat 6: Nikoe0 ($52.23 in chips)
    Seat 7: VodkinFirst ($23.04 in chips)
    Seat 8: m1gue132 ($63.16 in chips)
    Seat 9: DuhPokera ($20 in chips)
    bountyman444: posts small blind $0.25
    GoodFight.gf: posts big blind $0.50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to kingkong263 [6s Th]
    kingkong263: folds
    GhostFM: raises $0.50 to $1
    nul3m0: calls $1
    Nikoe0: folds
    VodkinFirst: folds
    m1gue132: folds
    DuhPokera: folds
    bountyman444: folds
    GoodFight.gf: folds
    *** FLOP *** [6c 7d 9d]
    GhostFM: bets $2
    nul3m0: raises $5 to $7
    GhostFM: calls $5
    *** TURN *** [6c 7d 9d] [Qh]
    GhostFM: checks
    nul3m0: bets $14.50
    GhostFM: calls $14.50
    *** RIVER *** [6c 7d 9d Qh] [2h]
    GhostFM: checks
    nul3m0: bets $35.88 and is all-in
    GhostFM: folds
    Uncalled bet ($35.88) returned to nul3m0
    nul3m0 collected $43.69 from pot
    nul3m0: doesn't show hand
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $45.75 | Rake $2.06
    Board [6c 7d 9d Qh 2h]
    Seat 1: bountyman444 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: GoodFight.gf (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: kingkong263 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: GhostFM folded on the River
    Seat 5: nul3m0 collected ($43.69)
    Seat 6: Nikoe0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: VodkinFirst folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: m1gue132 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: DuhPokera (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Last edited by kingkong263; Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:19 PM. Reason: about the folding not me but the guy in the pot

  • #2
    It's really difficult to say if Ghost made the right fold, as we don't know his cards. From the action it looks like he was probably beaten on the flop (by a set or straight), but called the raise and couldn't fold the turn either. His hand looks like KK/AA or maybe a sticky TT/JJ. The river is a total blank, so if he thought he was ahead on the turn, he should call the river, but I guess he couldn't stomach 3 barrels.
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    • #3
      Hi kingkong,

      I think folding T6o UTG preflop is a fine choice.

      Seriously, if you're asking about GhostFM folding the river, I'm not sure what kind of answer you're expecting, since we don't know his hole cards.

      Arty tried. With made hands he thinks are still good on the turn enough to call there, he should call the river often since it's a total blank. Unless the villain gives up a lot on the river with certain hand types. No reads + no hole cards = no real analysis.
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      • #4
        does is hole cards really matter? he was not getting odds to draw to anything on the turn. and if u cant be drawing on the turn what ever u thought was good on the turn should be good on river . maybe he called turn with a draw and missed . i cant see folding anything else on river . as 4 the AA KK TT JJ if u are folding on that river why call the turn?

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        • #5
          Yes, hole cards matter. So do reads.

          He could call correctly with a hand like Ad8d for instance. Or he could call with any draw incorrectly, since when does a losing player need correct odds to draw? Or with a big pair he could have a read that the villain will shut down worse hands than his on the river and only fire the big river barrel with monsters and be justifying the line with that. We can do a lot of speculation about it, some of it makes sense and much if it may not, it's all sort of moot if we are going to do it without knowledge of hole cards or reads.
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          • #6
            he was getting 2.2 to 1 to call river . playing online poker how can u say he never makes a big bet on the river with out the nuts? maybe he is gone to the bathroom and his 8 year old brother is playing. or maybe his gf is giving him a bj and he is getting excited . what i am saying is he should have folded the turn befor putting 39% of his stack in and folding. i thought by calling the turn he was pot commited . think i have alot to learn

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            • #7
              You're absolutely right that you shouldn't call a big turn bet if you're going to fold on blank river cards, but lots of players make this mistake (even me, from time to time). They call the turn, because they think they might be good, but then fold the river because they realise they probably aren't.
              There's a lot of money to be made (or rather SAVED) by making your decision on the flop. Often you'll see in hand analysis posts "I called the flop raise, planning to re-evaluate on the turn". This is not a profitable plan. Make your decision on the flop, and either get out with a minimal loss, or commit to stacking off over 3 streets. Easy game.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by kingkong263 View Post
                what i am saying is he should have folded the turn befor putting 39% of his stack in and folding.
                Putting this much of your stack in then folding is a huge leak if you do it routinely. It could be ok in some unique circumstances (which involve reads we don't have) or in this case even with a big draw that is getting the right price to call the turn but must fold if it misses. But as a general rule of thumb you're right, it's not good, I discuss this in detail in my class on Commitment Decisions. Mostly likely the player had no plan for his hand and didn't think it through before calling.
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