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10 10 vs. loose pasive player

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  • 10 10 vs. loose pasive player

    http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...950_4FBF86621F

    6 player is loose and passive and I am curious whether I was wrong when I'm bluffing on the turn?

  • #2
    **moved to better fitting forum since this is a cash game JWK24**
    Super-Moderator



    6 Time Bracelet Winner


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    • #3
      Right or wrong depends how passive and tight they are post flop. Most true passives tighten up post-flop and only raise with strong hands (better than top pair). Some are passive pre and then aggressive post like this one.

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      • #4
        I thought you played this hand well, nice win. My only issue is that I don't see the value in check shoving the turn. If you had that read you are better off making that move on the flop in my opinion, once I've just calling the raise on the flop I would have check called it down, either way this hand was not a bluff.

        For me the two options in this hand are to 3 bet on the flop, and be prepared to get it in. Or call the raise on the flop and check call it all the way down, thus not taking away his bluff factor. The re ship on the turn could have cost you money as the king should have scared him slightly more, although you don't have a king all that often, ace king and king 9 must be in your range in that spot some of the time.
        But well played and nice hand

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        • #5
          You aren't bluffing on the turn in this spot because a better hand than yours is never folding and worse hands than yours may call.

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          • #6
            Well played rudar47. You took your chances and won. When u did all in on turn, You just got saved. He might have k9 also. Till flop you was strongest but on turn there was a high card K. So shoving is bit risky at that point.

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            • #7
              AK was not in my range of him because he would 3-bet me pre flop and would not have taken this line on the flop, K9 is the risk i had to take, i bluff because i want him to fold QQ and JJ, maybe this thinking is wrong but at that time i feel like it is the right move.

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              • #8
                He isn't going to fold QQ or JJ after that action and AK is a small bit of his raise, he might have decided to vary his play pre flop and just call with it for disguise, he then misses the flop and raises to see where his AK is at, slightly out of frustration at how he has played it. Not altogether impossible lets be honest.

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                • #9
                  You say AK isn't in his range because he would 3-bet pre flop, yet QQ and JJ are still in his range? Hmm....

                  End of the day your play worked out nicely , A9 is about the only hand you are beating there that might call your check raise all in on the turn. Well played

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                  • #10
                    You are right, but i was thinking no way he is calling now after i played like that, and that situation was reversed i will never call with A9,JJ,QQ, maybe i am wrong but i dont know

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                    • #11
                      Hi guys, Very nice to have a healthy discussion on this one! umbup: Personally I really don't like how you played this hand, just because you get a good result in a hand doesn't mean it was played well (just like getting a bad result in a hand doesn't mean it was played badly). The problem here first is that the villain read is passive, yet he's raising you on a dry flop. Against a truly passive player TT is going to be beat an awful lot here. If he's the type that is normally passive but overplays/overvalues top pair top kicker, then check-raising the turn is very likely to lose value against him because the K should be a scary card, so now you end up folding out the hands you beat in his range (top pair on the flop) and stacking off to sets and bigger pairs. At any rate it seems the reads are off, or maybe the villain was tilting or something, since he took an aggressive line post flop with a marginal hand strength (really bad line against the preflop raiser with A9 imo unless you are really LAG). And while your intent with check-raise jamming was to turn your tens into a bluff and get any combos of JJ or QQ to fold, clearly that was not going to succeed (we know after the fact) since he called with just a 9. Even so I think there's more combos of better hands he can hold that will snap call our shove (sets specifically) then JJ/QQ that he chose to flat preflop. If we know he's going to overvalue top pair type hands in this spot, then I think check-calling down after being raised on the flop is the best way to maximize value against his range normally.
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                      • #12
                        Passive players don't usually raise post-flop unless they have at least 2 pairs. You have the worst overpair on that flop, which is fairly dry. I'd call the flop raise, as it's not much more than a minraise, and then just check-call down to showdown. Villain will show up with a set here quite often, so I'm never stacking off unless I hit another ten.

                        If villain was actually loose aggressive - the type that raises top pair on the flop, or even raises as a bluff - then I stack off on the flop when my equity is greatest and my hand needs protecting.
                        Bracelet Winner

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